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Proposition 8: The Same-Sex Marriage Debate. Recently, I posted a number of 4+ Raffle, posts about California Proposition 8. This is an emotionally charged issue with good thoughts on both sides. Not surprisingly, my posts sparked debate in the comment sections where a number of excellent questions were raised. Richard Hollis is one commentator who raised especially thoughtful questions. – Tp Blog! As a result of the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job questions raised, especially by Richard, I have decided to write my thoughts on Same-Sex Marriage from the ground up and have asked Richard to respond. Below is my essay followed by Richard’s response. – Tp Mechanical! Please note, when I sent Richard my essay, I had not yet added links to my sources. Richard and readers of Sheet | Resumed, Evangelical Outpost – thank you for your thoughtful read and consideration of this post. – Dustin Steeve. The upcoming proposition amending the Activities Performance constitution in the state of California to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, affirm marriage gives us opportunity to Cane Coloring Candy Cane Printable, pause and reflect. Since 1970, marriage has endured a series of devastating attacks. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job! In January 1970 the Family Law Act was signed by California Governor Ronald Reagan and “no-fault divorce” was written into law.

Reagan would later cite this as one of his greatest regrets. The intent of the Activities Performance Appraisal law was to help Californians separate amicably without having to contrive reasons for obtaining a divorce. As the explosive increase in divorces since 1970 attests, the effect of the law was that it hurt marriage. Presently, proposition 8 is giving Californians a rare opportunity to stop further tampering of marriage through law. 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job! As we consider the proposition, reason, empirical evidence, and morality ought to inform us. Planning Template | Wedding! Each of these has led me to the decision to affirm marriage by voting yes on proposition 8. Marriage is a fundamental building block of society. That phrase is often used but seldom explained.

When I say “fundamental building block of society” I am referring to | Resumed, marriage’s natural creation of families. Families build societies through the natural birthing and rearing of children. Without children, societies cease to exist. Reason dictates that a society wishing to preserve itself ought to foster and protect the union whereby children are naturally born, supported, and socialized. For marriages where child birth is not possible, married couples have the option to adopt children who do not have the protection and support of their biological parents. It Objective For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter! Current laws support this natural and healthy system. 4+ Raffle Sheet! Allowing same-sex couples to become a normal part of this system is unhealthy and unwise for Market Request Colorado Homes the following reasons. According to A. 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed! Dean Byrd, Ph.D, “There is no fact that has been established by social science literature more convincingly than the Page Candy Coloring Pages Printable Candy Cane following: all variables considered, children are best served when reared in a home with a married mother and Template | Resumed, father.” Psychological evidence shows that children have needs which are met uniquely by parents of opposite gender. From the way mothers and fathers uniquely hold children, to the way they uniquely play with children or discipline children, a child’s need for For Resume | Resume Letter love, support, and personal well-being are met uniquely by parents of the opposite gender. By definition, same-sex couples cannot meet these unique needs.

Furthermore, no reputable psychological theory or empirical study denies the 4+ Raffle Sheet Job importance of mothers in a child’s development. Gay men raising children are doing so without a mother in the nuclear family. Given the evidence, it is Guide To Betting, false to believe that science shows all family forms to be equal. Template | Resumed! Out of Real Estate Request | The Colorado Homes, love for our children and for our fellow citizen, we ought not to 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, solidify this false belief by Guide To Betting | Killarney writing into 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, law and teaching it to our children. If we chose to Activities Coordinator Appraisal, ignore the Template | Resumed number of needs a same-sex couple by Organizer Template | Wedding definition cannot provide to 4+ Raffle Template Job, the state or to the life of children, the same-sex culture still has elements of Guide Races, great concern which we ought to consider before we introduce these elements into Sheet, marriage. Guide Races! Pain and suffering resulting from Sheet Template | Resumed Job sexual disease permeate homosexual communities. According to ex-gay speaker Mike Haley, the odds of | Resume Cv Cover, a straight man contracting AIDS after one heterosexual encounter are 1 in 165,000 as opposed to 1 in 175 for gay men after one homosexual encounter.

These tragic statistics on HIV/AIDS seem to 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, be confirmed by the Center for Disease Control estimates on HIV prevalence. Multiple differences in lifestyles account for this including the greater likelihood of drug use among gay men as well as a higher average sexual partner rate. Domestic abuse occurs much more frequently within the Activities Coordinator homosexual community more than within heterosexual relationships. 78% of lesbians have reported domestic abuse related problems. Gay and bisexual men experience violence at a rate of 2 to 5. 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job! In addition to the problems of disease and violence, the homosexual community has a concept of “commitment” that is very different from Plan Blog marital commitment. 4+ Raffle | Resumed! Currently, monogamy is the norm and is socially expected among married couples. Guide! Only 25% of heterosexual men and 15% of 4+ Raffle Job, heterosexual women report sexual infidelity; 17% of marriages end in divorce as a result of Real Market Analysis Request Homes, infidelity. However, within the homosexual community, infidelity is the norm. | Resumed! Recent studies show that 95.6% of gay men report infidelity in their current relationship.

Numerous studies reveal that, among self-described committed homosexual couples, each individual has had an average of 3-5 partners a year. Apparently, marriage can get worse. I have given reasons why I believe equating homosexual unions with marriage is unhealthy. Upon these grounds, I believe a rational decision can be made. However, before I go further in the argument, I want to Real Market Analysis Request Colorado, be clear on the following point: anyone who suggests you keep your morality out of the marriage question is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, making a dangerous proposition. Organizer Template Ideas! Laws are filled with moral presuppositions and prescriptions. Though law and 4+ Raffle, morality are not the Mechanical same, laws are written by people and every person follows a moral compass. At its core, the decision to affirm marriage is a moral matter. The decision to allow homosexuals to marry is a moral matter because at the core of homosexual marriage is Sheet Template | Resumed, homosexuality. Your answer to the question of Appraisal, whether homosexuality is moral is going to determine your view of whether homosexual marriage should be accepted.

My moral framework is heavily informed by my evangelical Christian faith. I believe the Lord clearly speaks against homosexuality through scripture. I recognize that the claim is controversial and 4+ Raffle, worthy of its own post, but for the sake of brevity, I cite I Corinthians 6: 9-11 as evidence. I believe an appropriate Christian response to homosexuality is one which recognizes that the opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality, its holiness. Wedding Planning Organizer Template! Christians ought to respond to homosexuality as they ought to respond to all other sins: pursuing holiness and lovingly calling others to pursue holiness likewise.

One need not be a Christian in order to have a compelling moral argument against homosexuality. For example, you might be Aristotelian. Sheet Template | Resumed! If so, you might consider the anatomical design of Emergency Plan – Tp Mechanical, men and women and Sheet | Resumed, conclude that homosexual sex is against the proper function of humans. Perhaps you believe that there exists a proper order of things as a brute fact of the universe. Certainly, most people believe that there is some kind of order to the universe. If you hold the universe to be ordered, then you might look at the numerous physiological complications resulting from gay sex, such as the Guide | Killarney need for Job colostomies, and Guide, conclude that the activity is disordered and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, therefore not good. To Betting | Killarney Races! These are just a few of the many moral frameworks from which arguments against homosexuality can be levied.

Western tradition has always understood marriage and heterosexuality to be normal, healthy, and moral. Advocates for homosexual marriage claim that homosexual marriage is | Resumed Job, equally normal, healthy, and moral. Just as in Coloring Cane formal debate the burden of proof rests on those presenting challenge to the status quo, so the burden of proof rests on the advocates of homosexual marriage to | Resumed Job, prove its morality. Marriage is a fundamental building block of – Tp, our society. | Resumed! It is foolish to believe altering the form of the marital union will not have consequences. For the It Objective For Resume | Resume Letter reasons stated above, if we allow homosexual marriage, I believe its consequences will be adverse to Sheet | Resumed, marriage.

Recently, marriage has suffered the consequences of unhealthy ideas written into law such as no-fault divorce. Now we can put a stop to Real Market Analysis Homes, that trend. I hope that you will apply reason to an examination of the evidence, that you will allow your moral framework to Sheet, play a role in your decision. I believe that I have done so and have come to Emergency – Tp Mechanical, the conclusion that it is my responsibility, morally and for reasons pertaining to the health of my society, to Sheet | Resumed, vote yes on proposition 8 and Page Candy Candy Cane Printable, affirm marriage. by Dustin Steeve. Your essay begins by talking about the ‘devastating attacks’ that have been waged against 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, marriage since 1970, citing no-fault divorce as an example. Emergency Blog! The impression it seems to convey is that marriage is a sacred institution that has stood immovable and implacable for eons, but now recently faces threat. This is something of a fallacy. The Bible itself (a popular reference point for 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed those who traditionally oppose same-sex marriage) shows us that different attitudes to marriage have been in vogue in Guide Races different times.

The Israelite patriarch Jacob, for example, married both Rachel and Leah, daughters of Laban. “And Jacob did so, and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, fulfilled her week: and Student Activities Coordinator, he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.” –Genesis 29:28. Jacob ended up with four wives, and was far from the only polygamist in the Bible. Others include Gideon (Judges 8:30), Elkanah, father of the Sheet | Resumed prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 1:2), and kings such as Abijah (2 Chronicles 13:21), Rehoboam (2 Chronicles 11:21), and Jehoiada (2 Chronicles 24:3). Most famously, Solomon himself had “seven hundred wives… and three hundred concubines” (2 Kings 11:3). None of these royal polygamists were chastised or punished by It Objective Statement For Resume Letter God for this – except for Solomon, but even here the exception proves the rule. According to the Bible, Solomon’s sin was not that he married many wives, but that he married foreign wives who turned him away from worshipping Yahweh (11:4). Of course, these were times when women were considered merely property, and the New Testament moves much closer to 4+ Raffle Sheet, our traditional ‘one-man-one-woman’ view of marriage (though it never actually condemns the polygamists of the Estate Analysis | The Old Testament). But it does show that the concept of marriage has changed, and is culturally specific, rather than an institution with clear rules handed down by God and thriving unchanged throughout human history since Creation.

For an example closer to our time, consider interracial marriage. In 1967, Mildred Loving and her husband Richard, an interracial couple, were arrested at their Virginia home for violating that state’s anti-miscegenation law. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job! The couple pleaded guilty, and were sentenced to Guide To Betting | Killarney, a year in prison. Sheet Job! The appeal went all the way up to the Supreme Court, which lead to an end to bans on interracial marriage. Today the fight to end the ban on same-sex marriage mirrors the one to end the ban on Estate Request | The Colorado interracial marriage. Gay couples, just like mixed race couples, seek exactly the same thing: to be allowed to marry the ones they love. It is a parallel which many supporters of the ban find uncomfortable, since racism these days is so widely regarded as bigoted and unacceptable. Homophobia, unfortunately, is less so. Next, you claim that children “have needs which are met uniquely by parents of opposite gender.” I am sorry that, being a draft essay, there is no link for me to follow, but let me cite the following for examples of many, many studies which show insignificant or no detrimental affects on children having been raised by same-sex couples. If the sources you cite turn out to Template Job, be valid, we can only conclude that the results from research and Emergency, studies are, at best, mixed.

It is also worth considering the sort of Sheet, people that society does allow to marry and procreate. Murders, convicted felons, even child molesters are still free to wed and have children. They do not lose these rights through their actions. In the eyes of the law, they are still considered capable of loving another person and their own children, while homosexuals are not. This should be obviously ridiculous to anyone who has ever met a single homosexual. They are just as capable of loving another person, and a child, as heterosexuals.

But that is rather beside the point, because when discussing whether a same-sex marriage is a healthy environment in which to raise a child, you are really talking about gay adoption and parenting. This is an entirely new argument (though one in Plan Blog which I’d be happy to participate). Even if it were shown that a same-sex household was not a suitable environment in which to raise a child (and I am not agreeing with that statement at all), then that would still not be have any relevance on whether we should allow gay people the right to be joined in matrimony to their partner. Unlike the 4+ Raffle Template Job case of interracial marriage where children are generally an inevitable consequence of marriage, for same-sex couples they obviously are not. You then go on Coloring Pages Printable to quote shocking statistics about homosexual relationships.

I have to 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, be honest, but when I read them I laughed. Planning Organizer Template Ideas! This is exactly the kind of homophobic nonsense which simply does not stand up to real-world experience of homosexuals. “78% of lesbian relationships are riddled with domestic abuse… Only 25% of | Resumed Job, heterosexual men and 15% of heterosexual women report sexual infidelity… 95.6% of gay men report infidelity in their current relationship.” Again, I only wish I had the links available to me to read up on these studies, but as it is I simply do not believe they are accurate or reliable. The implications are clear: homosexuals are dirty and diseased, totally unable to control their lusts and their relationships are all dysfunctional. In actual fact, you only need to spend a little time on the gay scene to realise that homosexuals are people, just like heterosexuals. Activities Coordinator! Relationships are just as complicated and complex as they are for heterosexuals. Perhaps homosexuals are a little more inclined to promiscuity (though I find the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job statistics you quote grossly exaggerated), but -and this is the point- you still find love between homosexuals. Plutonic love, fraternal love, but also deep, caring, romantic love. It Objective For Resume Cv Cover Letter! And the Sheet Template | Resumed Job fact is that these couples cannot marry. Same-sex marriage has been legal in several countries for years, so we can, to a limited degree, measure the effects of same-sex marriage. Denmark, for Emergency Blog example, legalised it in 1989. The results from 4+ Raffle Sheet Template this ‘long-running experiment’ have been uniformly positive.

Opposition to the Danish law was led by Real Estate Homes the clergy (much the same as in the States). Sheet | Resumed! A survey conducted at the time revealed that 72 percent of Danish clergy were opposed to the law. It was passed anyway, and Student Activities Coordinator Appraisal, the change in the attitude of the clergy there has been dramatic – a survey conducted in 1995 indicated that 89 percent of the Danish clergy now admit that the Job law is It Objective Statement Letter, a good one and has had many beneficial effects, including a reduction in suicide, a reduction in the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and in promiscuity and 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed, infidelity among gays. But again, this rather misses the point. If you are worried that same-sex couples seem promiscuous, then your real quarrel is with promiscuity, not same-sex couples. If you believe that same-sex couples are violent, then your real quarrel is with violence, not same-sex couples. Estate Market Request Colorado! If you believe that sexually transmitted diseases are more common among same-sex couples, then your problem is 4+ Raffle Template, with sexually transmitted diseases, not same-sex couples. To refuse marriage to all same-sex couples on these grounds is simply to be a bigot and tar all homosexuals with the same brush. You then go on to talk about laws being rooted in morality. This I do agree with. Laws are entirely human constructs, and Estate Market Colorado, we make and Sheet Template Job, revise them as we see fit.

We do look to Wedding Planning Ideas, our own moral compasses to guide us in deciding what activities should be criminalised in our societies, and which should not. However, you then state that your own morality is rooted in 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job your religion, and that you object to homosexuality itself for It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume religious reasons. 4+ Raffle Job! This, of Printable Candy Cane, course, is your choice. You may base your beliefs on whatever you wish, and Sheet Template, I don’t doubt that religion is To Betting | Killarney, a popular choice for | Resumed many people. Page Cane Coloring Pages Printable Cane! But when your religious beliefs lead you to actively support a ban which has deep and fundamental consequences on other people, you are effectively enforcing your own religious beliefs onto other people.

You correctly state that one does not need to be a Christian to oppose gay marriage, but that does not mean that everyone does, by a long, long way. Many homosexuals may belong to any number of religions who are neutral to the matter or homosexuality. Many sects of Buddhism, for example, celebrate homosexual relationships. In reality it is their religious freedom which is being infringed. The state should not be trying to enforce a religion on its citizens, which is essentially what is happening if same-sex couples are forbidden to marry for religious reasons. 4+ Raffle Job! Anyone who believes in genuine religious freedom cannot oppose same-sex marriage on the basis of their own personal religious beliefs. “Just as in formal debate the burden of proof rests on those presenting challenge to the status quo, so the burden of Page Cane Coloring Printable Candy Printable, proof rests on the advocates of homosexual marriage to prove its morality.” This, I am afraid is simply not true. The burden of proof is not on Sheet Template anyone challenging the status quo. Such beliefs helped to keep slavery and Student Activities Appraisal, racial segregation alive for Sheet Template | Resumed years. To quote from Wikipedia: “Under the Latin maxim necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the Estate Analysis | The Homes ordinary rule is that “the necessity of Sheet | Resumed, proof lies with he who complains.” For example, a person has to prove that someone is guilty (in a criminal case) or liable (in a civil case) depending on the allegations; a person is not required to prove his or her own innocence, it is Real Estate Market Request Colorado Homes, rebuttably presumed.” In the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job case of homosexuality, the Page Candy Cane Coloring Printable Cane Printable burden is on ‘they who complain’, i.e., the people who object to it.

Just as we should assume arrested men are innocent until shown guilty. 4+ Raffle Template! We should also assume homosexuality is morally ‘innocent’ until shown otherwise. The problem with your position is that you start with a prejudice (that homosexuality is wrong), and then challenge people to convince you otherwise. This is back to front. Can you see the problem if I stated that I think all black people are immoral and Page Candy Cane Cane, then challenged people to prove me wrong (just to be clear, I don’t actually think that)? To conclude, allowing same-sex couples to marry will not bring about the destruction of marriage, families and society in 4+ Raffle Job general. All homosexuals are asking for is the Emergency – Tp Mechanical right to be united with their loved ones, and to have that union recognised for what it is: in every aspect, just as moral, loving, legitimate and worthy of respect as those undertaken by heterosexuals. By what right do we deny them this? By Richard Hollis. Dustin Steeve is a blogger and web enthusiast.

Dustin's passion is to see his generation of Christians rise up as thought leaders, doing remarkable, good work Christianly. Dustin is interested in the rise of Sheet Template Job, web media and Guide To Betting Races, increasingly prominent use of 4+ Raffle Job, computer technology as a tool to aid people. Dustin worked for three years as the director of GodblogCon and is an adviser for the Christian Web Conference. Dustin graduated summa cum laude and received his B.A. in History from Biola University where he also graduated from Torrey Honors Institute. Emergency Blog! Dustin has completed some post-graduate work at the Stanford Graduate School of Business where he was appointed to the Dean's List and received a certificate of completion from the Summer Institute for General Management. View all posts by Dustin R. Template! Steeve.

You state that “at the core of homosexual marriage is homosexuality…[and] whether homosexuality is moral” If this is really the core issue, then why all the Page Candy Pages Candy subterfuge over marriage? Why not criminalize homosexuality? For if you cannot justify criminalizing homosexuality, its seems to Sheet | Resumed, me that you cannot make a good argument against banning gay marriage. If you respond that you do want to criminalize homosexuality too (I mean literally fine, jail, or deport gay people), then it seems somewhat deceitful that you haven’t explicitly made that policy argument. It prompts questions about a “secret agenda” or “slippery slope”….will you next criminalize divorce next, taking the Lord’s name in vane, dancing, or alcohol? We are all sinners. After the “pure Christians” finish with the gays, will they come for me next? Recent studies show that 95.6% of Emergency Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog, gay men report infidelity in their current relationship. Numerous studies reveal that, among self-described committed homosexual couples, each individual has had an average of | Resumed, 3-5 partners a year.

If you are morally opposed to the idea of gay people being promiscuous, why do you not support proposals to give them a legal incentive toward monogamy? “. . Page Cane Pages Candy Cane Printable! . the opposite 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed, of homosexuality is not heterosexuality, its holiness.” So what’s the opposite It Objective Statement For Resume Cv Cover Letter, of heterosexuality? And again, if “the core of Job, homosexual marriage is homosexuality,” what is at “the core” of heterosexual marriage? If you are morally opposed to the idea of gay people being promiscuous, why do you not support proposals to It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume, give them a legal incentive toward monogamy? Are saying gays need to be bribed to 4+ Raffle Template Job, be monogamous? Loving each other and being in Guide Races a committed relationship isn’t enough? You’ve got to get goodies from the state? Sounds like gays have a lot of problems to work out 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job before they start demanding marriage.

First, I think that fully legal and supported Civil Unions should be the level of acceptance supported by the legal system — I read (and lightly believe) that there are some 27 different legal rights of a spouse from marriage that, in theory, could be gained by specific contractual agreements. I’d actually like to see a full booklet summarizing all of them, but haven’t (perhaps you know?). Marriage is for children. In a very real, genetic based way, every child is a marriage of half of Real Estate Colorado Homes, each parent’s DNA — the mother’s ovum DNA is Job, married to Guide To Betting Races, the father’s sperm DNA. (a bond no one can sunder.) How many gov’t benefits / lower taxes or credits, etc., should be granted to parents is one of the particular issues somewhat outside of ‘gay marriage’. I think the non-gov’t benefits of marriage are so great that no additional benefits are needed, until very expensive children are born — and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, it is in the raising of children that gov’t cash benefits should be focused. All homosexuals are asking for Real Estate Market Request is the right to be united with their loved ones, and to have that union recognised for what it is: in every aspect, just as moral, loving, legitimate and worthy of respect as those undertaken by heterosexuals. By what right do we deny them this? Because promiscuity is immoral, and there’s a much higher probability of promiscuity among gays than among married straights, I don’t consider them ‘equal’. Drunk driving is Template | Resumed Job, a better comparison than inter-racial marriage.

Most drunk drivers most of the time get home as safely as sober drivers — and many sober folk have accidents. Yet drunk driving is illegal because of the probability of more accidents. I don’t consider any unmarried lovers as ‘respect worthy’ as married lovers, because of the commitment to fidelity promise; gays asking for marriage are not even uniform in agreement on whether fidelity should be part of their marriage agreement. Marriage has already been weakened, and devalued (a la Britney, Liz Taylor, etc.); and even love itself has been primarily portrayed in culture as lust, rather than commitment. Gay marriage rather than civil unions weakens it further. Finally, homosexual behavior is Statement | Resume, sinful in 4+ Raffle Template Job Christian theology. Part of the gay marriage push to ‘equal morality’ is to make it illegal to claim that gay sex is sinful. (See Europe) I’m a sinner, too. But even so, I object to steps towards restricting Christians from calling gay sex sinful — and thus immoral. Straight promiscuity is also immoral; and Wedding Planning Organizer Template, neither should be respected as equal to married faithfulness.

Marriage is a fundamental building block of 4+ Raffle Template Job, society. That phrase is Guide, often used but seldom explained. When I say “fundamental building block of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, society” I am referring to marriage’s natural creation of families. Agreed but I think you would then also agree that it is Coloring Printable Candy Cane, all the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed more important not to exclude members of Cv Cover Letter, society from Sheet Template | Resumed Job marriage unless there is a very good reason. In addition, you miss the trees from the | Killarney forest.

A family is not just a baby or child but many people. Marriage, when it works well, provides for stability for 4+ Raffle Sheet Template all family members. This is good for a baby but it is also good for everyone else, such as the elderly or even the single person who is alone. According to A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D, “There is Coloring Pages, no fact that has been established by social science literature more convincingly than the following: all variables considered, children are best served when reared in a home with a married mother and father.” OK but what does this have to Template Job, do with gay marriage? By definition the only way for Candy Cane Candy Cane a gay couple to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, be raising a kid is if this above ideal has broken down somehow. According to Guide To Betting | Killarney Races, ex-gay speaker Mike Haley, the odds of a straight man contracting AIDS after one heterosexual encounter are 1 in 165,000 as opposed to 1 in Job 175 for gay men after one homosexual encounter. That’s a good point in favor for gay marriage, as for the other statistics:

I have given reasons why I believe equating homosexual unions with marriage is unhealthy. Upon these grounds, I believe a rational decision can be made. Not really, you’ve written off a class of human beigns based on a sociological study. Give me an Excel sheet with enough data and I’ll find you plenty of niches among heterosexuals that replicate the ‘problems’ you’ve shown. Activities Coordinator Appraisal! For example, if I demonstrated that marriages of 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, 35+ yr old women to men between 19-24 have incidents of cheating and STDs equal or greater than the ones you cited for gays would you prohibit the recognition of such marriages? How many other members of Emergency Plan Blog, your cohort would it take to 4+ Raffle Sheet, screw up marriage so much that you’d give up your wife?

People who cite studies are of more dubious moral character than any homosexual my friend, don’t be a sociologist! Tread very carefully! The decision to allow homosexuals to Page Candy Coloring Printable Candy Cane, marry is a moral matter because at the core of homosexual marriage is homosexuality. Your answer to the question of whether homosexuality is moral is going to Template | Resumed Job, determine your view of whether homosexual marriage should be accepted. My moral framework is heavily informed by Planning Organizer Ideas my evangelical Christian faith. 1. Not all people are Christians and not even all Christians agree with you on gay marriage. 2. The purpose of the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed state is not to enshrine Christian morality and it isn’t to Emergency, ‘teach’ morality. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template! This is why many marriages are perfectly legal even though they would ideally be given at least a little skeptical scrutiny by a pastor….more about Real Estate Market Colorado Homes that below… Recently, marriage has suffered the consequences of unhealthy ideas written into law such as no-fault divorce. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job! Now we can put a stop to Wedding Planning Organizer Template Ideas, that trend. Why don’t you show us how keeping the Sheet Template | Resumed gay couple down the street from Mechanical being able to have a legal marriage stops you from being a good father to Sheet, your children or a good husband to your wife…or at Page Candy Cane Pages Cane Printable least would facilitate you becoming a better one?

If you can’t do that then why not ‘put a stop to that trend’ by, say, actually putting a stop to the trend and put your eggs in rewriting divorce laws. A cynic might say here you are rallying the troops behind feeling good by Sheet attacking a minority group you people do not like, do not associate with and would like to Estate Analysis, scapegoat for your own miserable failings. As a matter of fact, why not go only as far as the Catholic Church and refuse to recognize divorced people who have remarried except under circumstances where an application for annullment has been vetted and granted? Why not castigate the Sheet Template | Resumed failure of Wedding Ideas, your VP candidate to properly raise her daughter and stop celebrating the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job impending marriage that…study wise….is likely to be yet another failed marriage? Timber in thine own eye indeed. Are saying gays need to be bribed to be monogamous? Loving each other and being in a committed relationship isn’t enough? Please stop trying to outstupid smmtheory, on Page Candy Coloring Printable the previous SSM thread he takes the campionship. On the Sheet | Resumed Job off chance you’re serious I wouldn’t say marriage is a ‘bribe’ to be monogamous but more of a challenge that has both positive and Real Estate, negative reinforcement. Even with no-fault divorce and adultry no longer being a major cause for ‘punishment’ in divorce hearings you’re playing with fire if you get married without an Sheet Template, intention to Wedding Planning Template | Wedding Ideas, at least try to be monogamous. | Resumed! Your partner can screw you over (pardon the pun) in Student Appraisal lots of ways both legal and emotional. (For an Sheet Template | Resumed, interesting take on how marriage has a dark side that can, in some ways, be good see the response this advice columnist gave here:http://www.salon.com/mwt/col/tenn/2008/08/22/laughter_in_the_dark/ really read it, it was one of the most interesting takes I’ve ever read although it’s not directly tied to gay marriage at all)

Loving each other and | Killarney Races, being in a committed relationship isn’t enough? NOTE: All the Template | Resumed Job moms and dads with teen kids thinking of Candy Coloring Pages, moving in with their girlfriends or boyfriends might want to Sheet Template Job, take note of this phrase from ucfengr. Take the internet filter off the p orn #038; block out ucfengr’s writing least you want some of Real Market Analysis | The Homes, his words thrown at you! Please stop trying to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, outstupid smmtheory, on the previous SSM thread he takes the Page Candy Cane Pages Printable Candy Cane Printable campionship. Perhaps you should get over yourself, Boonton. You’re really not smart enough to call other people stupid so freely. On the off chance you’re serious I wouldn’t say marriage is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, a ‘bribe. That’s great, but you weren’t the Page Candy Cane Coloring one I was responding to. I was responding to this: why do you not support proposals to give them a legal incentive toward monogamy? Most people don’t need a “legal incentive” to stay monogamous, even before they are married. For most the knowledge that infidelity would severely damage or destroy a relationship is enough, but apparently that is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, not enough for gays, who need a government bribe.

Richard Hollis wrote: Again, I only wish I had the links available to Guide | Killarney, me to read up on these studies, but as it is I simply do not believe they are accurate or reliable. I’m not sure I understand this objection, since there were ample links to 4+ Raffle, the statistic sources and the studies to which Dustin referred. Plan Mechanical Blog! Perhaps you object to the fact that some of these sources are not downloadable for free? Or is it that they are hosted on sites like Family Research Council (www.frc.org) to which you do not wish to Sheet, contribute?

Or (as I believe is Estate Analysis | The, more likely) do you simply choose to disbelieve those studies that do not fit your world view? Don’t misunderstand me: I frankly think Prop 8 is the wrong solution to the “problem”, if “gay marriage” is | Resumed Job, a problem. I would rather that government, at all levels, have nothing to Emergency Plan Mechanical, say at all about marriage. That which government controls will likely be controlled in a manner I do not approve. Marriage is a great example of this principle. I believe it to be a sacred covenant, which should be sanctioned by the church and society, and entered (or dissolved) by the free choice of individuals. As such, the coercive power of government at any level is not only unnecessary, it distorts the 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job societal benefit and religious meaning of the relationship. | Killarney! Government’s role, if it has any at all, should be limited to enforcing the terms of the contract. Would such a laissez-faire approach allow same-sex couples to get “married”?

Of course. Would such couples get the benefits accorded to “traditional” marriages? No more or less than they do now; such benefits are under the Job control of the institution doing the providing, whether a charity, employer, or government. As an example, anti-Prop 8 groups cite the problem that a same-sex partner would not inherit pensions. The truth is, pensions are not inheritable, unless it is stipulated in the contract(s) that create the pension . And, in fact, many — not all, but many — pension plans are inheritable by anyone the pension recipien;t wishes, whether spouse, partner, progeny, or next-door neighbor. That some, and maybe most pensions are not so designable is not a problem with the Wedding Ideas law, it is Sheet Template Job, a problem with the contract signed to Emergency Plan – Tp Blog, create the pension. The heritability of some government benefits is Sheet Template | Resumed, a whole ‘nother subject, but this, too, could be solved simply by removing the Wedding Template Ideas concept of “marriage” from the law altogether.

All of this said, I will probably vote in favor of Proposition 8. If we can’t get government out of the marriage business altogether, we can at least get them to define it in a manner that most Californians can stomach. Perhaps you should get over yourself, Boonton. You’re really not smart enough to call other people stupid so freely. I’ve only called 3 people here stupid. Try to Sheet Template | Resumed, think of It Objective Statement For Resume Cv Cover, it in a positive way….you’re like a member of an 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, elite force here….

Most people don’t need a “legal incentive” to stay monogamous, even before they are married. … Like I said I think it is missing something to Activities Performance Appraisal, describe marriage as an Sheet | Resumed Job, ‘incentive for monogamoy’. It is more accurate to describe it as a challenge (in lots of things, not just monogamy). Emergency – Tp Blog! A challenge has positives but it also has difficulties. For most the knowledge that infidelity would severely damage or destroy a relationship is enough, but apparently that is not enough for gays, who need a government bribe. You don’t get a gov’t bribe for being monogamous in a marriage. Did I miss something, is California giving out coupons for free ice cream for married gay couples who don’t cheat? And I notice you dodged my other point, if the only point here is the fuzzy happy thought of a relationship why have marriage at all? Why don’t people just live with each other as they please and Sheet Template | Resumed Job, if that turns out to be a life long relationship great if not ahhh well? Your view of marriage seems to not only make it unneeded for gays but for everyone.

Channelling a bit of Hugh Hefner today are we? I agree wholeheartedly with you that getting government altogether out of the issue is the preferable course (as I argued in Real Estate Request Homes the thread on Sheet Template the former post on the subject). Christians err when they want representative government to make it safe to believe in Christianity. The only For Resume | Resume Cv Cover, danger that concerns me as an American is the loss of | Resumed, freedom of speech under hate crime regimens. JustMakingItUp: Hi, I’m Richard Hollis. Actually I meant that I literally couldn’t follow the Cane Printable Printable links, as I had only received a draft version of Dustin’s original essay by e-mail, and the links were not attached. To be fair, I do take your point that it was the weakest part of Template Job, my response because I was speaking from an emotional point rather than a logical one. My hunch was to Wedding Template, reject these statistics out of hand because they seemed so over-inflated, and this of course, would not have been a reasonable thing to do if I could have followed the links.

However, I still think my hunch was justified. Statistics like this (when people are presumably interviewed and asked to simply tell the truth) are generally notoriously difficult for a number of 4+ Raffle | Resumed, reasons. To Betting | Killarney! For one thing, people lie. It may be that the researcher has discovered a tendancy in gay men to exaggerate their sexual conquests. It may be that the research involved heterosexual people who were still in relationships (and therefore more likely to lie about 4+ Raffle Job their infidelities). It may even be that the researchers were not impartial, and actively wanted to find that gay men were promiscuous, and so deliberately asked heterosexual people who seemed straight-laced and monogamous, and homosexual people who seemed rather… well… sluttish (for want of a better word). A lot of work needs to go into making sure legitimate scientific studies are impartial, objective, and | Killarney Races, wherever possible, double-blinded. And that is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, before you even study the implications of the findings.

But yes, now I can access the links, I intend to read up on Emergency Plan – Tp Blog these studies (I still have not done so yet). It should make interesting reading. In theory I’m not against your libertarian take on marriage but I’m not sure it is Sheet Template, as practical as you depict to simply replace all of it with a bunch of contracts. For example, some states still have spousal privilege when it comes to criminal trials, I don’t see how you can replicate that in a private contract. Even if you’re willing to | Killarney Races, dispense with privilege, there are other legal implications to getting married that are bit complicated. For example, you are legally obligated for Template the debts your spouse incurs for necessities like medical care. This obviously has a public policy benefit….Donald Trump’s wife can’t ask for charity care on the grounds that she has no job and her husband doesn’t want to foot the bill but I don’t think you could manufacture it by having your spouse carry around a private contract. JustMakingItUp – Hi, I’m Richard Hollis. Actually, the reason I was not able to access the link is that I had only received a draft of Dustin’s post via e-mail and Candy Cane, the links were not attached. I do take your point that it was the weakest part of Job, my response. I was taking an emotional stance rather than a logic one.

I was dismissing the studies out of Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog, hand simply because they seemed too over-inflated, and this would have been totally unreasonable of me had I been able to access the links. However, I don’t think I was totally unjustified. Studies such as these (where people are presumably asked to fill out surveys and trusted to tell the truth) are notoriously fraught with difficulties. For one thing, people lie. Sheet! It may be that the researchers actually found a tendancy in homosexuals to – Tp Mechanical Blog, exaggerate their sexual conquests. Perhaps the heterosexuals interviewed were in Sheet Job relationships, and therefore less likely to admit to any infidelities. Perhaps the researchers themselves were biased, and actively wanted to Emergency Plan Mechanical, prove homosexuals were more promiscuous, and so deliberately selected people they expected to give the 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job results they wanted to hear. It is extremely important (and difficult) to make sure such studies are truly objective, impartial, double-blinded (where possible), and even accurate. Mechanical! And that is before we even discuss the implications of the findings.

But now I have the links, I intend to follow them (I still have not done so yet). I’m sure they will make interesting reading. JustMakingItUp – Hi, I’m Richard Hollis. Actually, the reason I was not able to access the link is that I had only received a draft of Dustin’s post via e-mail and 4+ Raffle | Resumed, the links were not attached. I do take your point that it was the weakest part of my response. I was taking an emotional stance rather than a logic one.

I was dismissing the studies out of hand simply because they seemed too over-inflated, and this would have been totally unreasonable of me had I been able to access the links. However, I don’t think I was totally unjustified. Studies such as these (where people are presumably asked to fill out Wedding Organizer | Wedding surveys and trusted to tell the truth) are notoriously fraught with difficulties. For one thing, people lie. Template | Resumed Job! It may be that the researchers actually found a tendancy in Wedding Organizer | Wedding Ideas homosexuals to exaggerate their sexual conquests. 4+ Raffle Sheet Job! Perhaps the heterosexuals interviewed were in relationships, and Real Market Analysis Request | The Colorado, therefore less likely to admit to 4+ Raffle | Resumed, any infidelities. Perhaps the researchers themselves were biased, and Activities Appraisal, actively wanted to prove homosexuals were more promiscuous, and so deliberately selected people they expected to Sheet Template, give the results they wanted to hear.

It is extremely important (and difficult) to make sure such studies are truly objective, impartial, double-blinded (where possible), and even accurate. | Killarney! And that is 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, before we even discuss the implications of the Emergency Plan – Tp Blog findings. But now I have the links, I intend to follow them (I still have not done so yet). I’m sure they will make interesting reading. Ooops. Sorry about that… I do take your point that it was the weakest part of my response.

I was taking an emotional stance rather than a logic one. I was dismissing the studies out of hand simply because they seemed too over-inflated, and this would have been totally unreasonable of me had I been able to access the links. The studies probably are overinflated, outdated and Sheet | Resumed, distorted in Wedding Planning Organizer Ideas some or many respects but the Sheet Template Job larger issue is ‘so what’. Statistics are always in flux and it is always possible to create the numbers that suit your agenda, and by Candy create I don’t mean lie but simply choose your subjects carefully to get the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed results you want. How about the divorce rate for A-level celebrities who marry within two years of Planning Organizer | Wedding Ideas, their first cover on People magazine? Domestic abuse rates for couples that meet at AA or NA meetings perhaps? If I told you bloggers have a 97% failure rate at Sheet Template Job marriage how would you feel about the state telling you it’s not going to let you get married for the sake of the Mechanical ‘institution’? Great post!!

I invite everyone to read the post on http://editorialsection.com. I haven’t visited Evangelical Outpost for quite a while. Now that I return it feels like Charlton Heston returning to earth in Planet of the Apes. Is this some kind of Emergent Evangelicalism? From these comments, and those on Sheet other threads, it appears that many evangelicals support a redefinition of marriage and Guide Races, the family – beginning with gender, moving on 4+ Raffle Sheet Job I presume to number. A large number seem poised to support a candidate most distinguished for his promise to sweep away even the Guide To Betting | Killarney smallest impediments to the killing of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, unborn children as one of For Resume | Resume Letter, his first acts in office. Freedom of the Gospel, indeed.

This kind of freedom appears set to | Resumed Job, bind our nation for a very long time. (Note: BitterClinger is merely a screenname, not intended to Cane Printable Cane Printable, imply any relationship to Sheet | Resumed, Jamie Farr, his family or associates.) I think both authors have thoughtfully expressed their opinions, and I applaud their efforts. Guide | Killarney! This is the kind of reasoned discourse that, while it might not lead to consensus, keeps open the doors of communication. Thank you, Mr.

Steeve and 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, Mr. Hollis for your contributions. You have given me much to ponder. I’ve only called 3 people here stupid. Student Appraisal! Try to think of it in a positive way….you’re like a member of an Template, elite force here…. As I said, you are not smart enough to call anybody stupid. Perhaps you should stop trying to justify it. Like I said I think it is missing something to It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume, describe marriage as an ‘incentive for monogamoy’. Then talk to Sheet Template | Resumed, Ebonmuse, he was the one that asserted it was needed. Though, he is far from the only “gay marriage” advocate to use that argument. What is sad is Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover, that people use Christianity when it is convenient for them.

The verses most Christians use against homosexuality, if looked at closer, condemn those that would use them. 4+ Raffle! If you do follow the Bible, Homosexuality is Emergency Plan Blog, a sin. Template! Guess what so is Adultery! We don’t have a problem with our kids seeing a man and woman sin on TV but two men or two women and God’s gonna burn your TV! You can’t convince someone to Mechanical, desire to be Holy unless you can demonstrate what Holy is. It’s Planks and Splinters. No I don’t agree with homosexuality but I’m tired of people living with their girlfriend out of wedlock and Sheet Template | Resumed, Telling a Gay couple they will burn in Hell. Then talk to Ebonmuse, he was the one that asserted it was needed. Though, he is far from the Cane Printable Candy Cane only “gay marriage” advocate to use that argument. If you want to Sheet Template Job, conduct private debates then take it to email, otherwise any argument posted on a comment board is Emergency Plan – Tp, fair game for criticism by anyone who reads it. From these comments, and those on other threads, it appears that many evangelicals support a redefinition of marriage and the family – beginning with gender, moving on Template Job I presume to number.

Nah, the comments you see that support the Page Coloring Pages Candy Cane redefinition of marriage and 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, family are the Emergency Blog atheists, Cafeteria Christians, and others that nay-say evangelicals and purport to tell everybody they aren’t tolerant enough (never mind the fact that Christ didn’t tolerate sin). The comments made by 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed others tend to get lost in – Tp the shuffle or drown out by the comments from the self-appointed arbiters of intelligence, tolerance, and enlightenment. If you want to conduct private debates then take it to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, email, otherwise any argument posted on Emergency – Tp Blog a comment board is fair game for criticism by anyone who reads it. What’s amazing about this whole discourse, is that Boonton calls me stupid. Here’s the 4+ Raffle path: Ebonmuse asserts that gays need the incentive of marriage to practice monogamy. I point out Real Estate Analysis Request Colorado how silly that is and if it’s true (which it could be, he is not the only gay marriage supporter to put forward that argument), gays obviously have bigger problems than not being able to be married. Boonton calls me stupid for saying gays need an incentive to Sheet Template Job, be monogamous, while at It Objective | Resume Cv Cover the same time showing that he doesn’t understand what an incentive is (here’s a clue, marriage is the 4+ Raffle Sheet Job incentive). Now that I look at it, I find myself starting to agree with Boonton; I am stupid.

Who but an idiot would get stuck in orbit around the black hole of stupidity that is Boonton? It doesn’t look as if the original author of this post intends to Activities Coordinator, address my point. Sheet Template | Resumed! Unfortunate. ucfengr, you have twisted my words. I did not say that gays “need the incentive of marriage to Guide, practice monogamy”. That is obviously false: the large numbers of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, gay couples who are already living in monogamous relationships, fighting for the right to To Betting, have those relationships legally recognized, is disproof enough of that. But if you think monogamy is a good thing, as I assume you do, then why would you be opposed to giving people additional incentives to practice it? If you’re opposed to “bribing” people to be monogamous, do you also think we should roll back the tax exemptions and 4+ Raffle Sheet, other benefits offered to heterosexual married couples? The selective application of logic when it comes to anti-gay-marriage arguments never ceases to astonish. Are some gays promiscuous? No doubt.

And something like 50% of heterosexual marriages end in Student Coordinator divorce. Does that also prove that straight people are inherently promiscuous and Job, don’t deserve access to marriage either? do you also think we should roll back the tax exemptions and other benefits offered to heterosexual married couples? Most of those tax incentives or exemptions occur for dependent children. If the couple both work and earn extra money, their taxes can often be higher when their combined income pushes them into the higher tax bracket. Given how advocates brag about Wedding Organizer Template Ideas how homosexuals tend to earn more, that seems more likely to | Resumed Job, happen than not. One other thing to note is that depending on how much a parent spends on their child, that tax exemption does not really make a child any more affordable and only slightly mitigates the expenses of Real Market | The Colorado Homes, raising children. So loosing the tax exemptions and other supposed benefits given to heterosexual married couples would be worth it to me at Template least if it were to For Resume Cv Cover Letter, be traded for the elimination of monosexed marriage being recognized as valid by the government. Do you think that the 4+ Raffle | Resumed advocates for monosexed marriage would quit seeking governmental recognition of their relationship as a valid marriage if the tax exemptions and Page Coloring Pages Printable Candy Printable, other benefits were non-existent for 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed heterosexual marriages?

I for one, do not think they would quit. Page Candy! I think bringing those things up is used as an evasion from having to talk about the true and underlying motives behind the activism. I’m pretty educated in religion and theology (masters degrees in both). i lean pretty heavily on the conservative side when it comes to issues of homosexuality, bottom line, i disagree with it and don’t think it’s right or moral. With that said i would still not vote for proposition 8. I think the homosexual community should have the right to marriage and things that go with marriage. I also don’t agree with the Muslim faith and many other faiths and practices but i still think Islamic people should have the 4+ Raffle Template Job right to get married.

I think it’s a smoke screen to think that the Page Cane Coloring Pages Printable Candy liberal illuminati are going to take over the country and 4+ Raffle | Resumed, gays are going to be the Guide To Betting | Killarney down fall of Job, marriage. I simply don’t believe that to be true. People, specifically people who claim to follow Jesus need to get serious about marriage before they start wanting to defend it in Guide court. McCain being a huge example. This is America we believe in freedom of religion and equal right, i affirm those things and it’s it’s because of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, that that i think homosexuals should be able to marry. I really don’t see how someone well versed in religion and theology can counter Jesus’ definition of Emergency Plan Mechanical Blog, marriage – one man and one woman.

To do so implies that you find suspect at least one of his teachings. Sheet Template Job! The question then becomes – How many more after that do you find suspect such that you can no longer say you whole-heartedly believe what Jesus taught? Boonton calls me stupid for saying gays need an incentive to be monogamous, while at the same time showing that he doesn’t understand what an incentive is It Objective Statement | Resume, (here’s a clue, marriage is the incentive). It’s stupid to describe marriage as a bribe by the gov’t to be monogamous. Marriage does indeed have incentives to Sheet, be monogamous but it’s a lot more complicated than that.

It is a challenge to reap the rewards of mutual monogamy….the description of Page Cane Printable Printable, a marriage as a contract is Template, very apt. Wedding Template! In a contract, both parties agree to give something up in exchange for 4+ Raffle Template Job something else. Candy Cane Printable! It is assumed they enter a contract because they deem this to Sheet, be a fair trade. Yes it is possible for one side to cheat (example, you accept the inventory but refuse to pay the vendor) so contract law has incentives for both sides not to cheat. The point of Planning Organizer | Wedding, that, though, is not for the gov’t to bribe people into honoring their contracts. Smmtheory – hello again. I just had to post to correct you, but Jesus did not say anything about homosexuality at Sheet Template Job all. Nothing. Not one thing. Activities Coordinator Performance! Which is odd in Template itself; if homosexuality is such a great sin, you’d think he’d at Student Activities Coordinator Performance Appraisal least MENTION it once…

To the people who say ‘No’ on prop 8. How about changing the definition of marriage as partnering with any preference such as man-to-dog? woman-to-pig. Do you like it? How about redefining of “dependent” in tax law by changing it and adoption of a dog can be allowed for tax exemption for dependent? Can you accept it?

Let’s keep the 4+ Raffle Template common sense. Request for Same sex marriage has gone much higher beyond tolerance level of our society. Therfore, ‘YES’ on Prop 8 is absolutely necessary for our social health. Jeong, that is a ridiculous comparrison. Page Printable! A marriage is a union of two consenting equals.

You cannot marrying a dog because a dog has no idea what it is doing. It does not understand marriage, let alone consent to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, it. Therefore it is not a fair comparrison. Two men or two women can love each other as deeply and sincerely as a man and a woman. Requesting same-sex marriage does not go beyond tolerance at all. How about changing the definition of marriage as partnering with any preference such as man-to-dog? woman-to-pig. Do you like it?

Not really, I see no argument in favor of man-dog or woman-pig marriages. I see a very good one against Plan Blog, it which is Sheet | Resumed, that dogs and pigs are not humans. Last time I checked, gays are. How about redefining of “dependent” in tax law by changing it and adoption of Emergency Plan Blog, a dog can be allowed for 4+ Raffle Sheet tax exemption for Planning Organizer dependent? Can you accept it? Well anyone can be a dependent in 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job tax law….if you are taking care of someone, I think the To Betting | Killarney test is provide at least half their expenses and that is more than $5K a year…..as for expanding that to dogs, I’d love that as I have two dogs….but I suppose it would be wiser to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, use a tax exemption to help someone keep their home or cloth their kids. Once it is allowed to redefine marriage as you prefer for Homosexuality, anybody might be able to redefine it according to their preference without restriciton. In that case, this society will be in mess to define what is Organizer | Wedding, right or wrong and what can be tolerant or banned. Without certain restriction of human freedom according to common social welfare, evetually this society will be uncontrolable and 4+ Raffle Template Job, return to very primitive society.

If you think that man-to-man marriage is acceptable while man-to-dog is not acceptable just because dog is not humanbeing, it is Page Coloring Pages Cane Printable, completely ccontradictory logic because the man who prefer dog instead of humang being will be discriminated aaccording to your strange logic of ‘NO’ side of prop 8. If you think there is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, no problem to choose your partner for marriage with same sex, why does it become problem for a person to choose a dog as marriage partner. You have to keep in mind that there can be some weird people who prefer animals to Real Estate Market Request | The Colorado Homes, humanbeing naturally, as you insist that homosexuality is innate. Let’s have common sense and logic… The same sex marriage should not be tolerated in the health society. ‘YES’ on Prop 8…it should be for 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job you and me and my children and Planning Template, future generation and all human being. I just had to post to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, correct you, but Jesus did not say anything about Wedding Planning Ideas homosexuality at all. Nothing.

Not one thing. Which is odd in itself; if homosexuality is such a great sin, you’d think he’d at least MENTION it once… Well, let’s put it this way, homosexual sex is Sheet Template, sex outside of marriage, which Jesus did have something to say about. And since his definition of marriage was between one man and one woman, I think that kind of means that when Jesus thinks sex outside of marriage is sinful, that includes homosexual type. And for those who thought that was unfair, Jesus recommended celibacy. Homosexual activity doesn’t exactly qualify as celibacy either. So there you have it, Jesus’ teaching on sex – either to To Betting, your opposite sex spouse, or not at all. Sheet Template! Why should teaching against homosexual sex outside of that be necessary when that covers it all? Actually, Jesus never said anything about sex, period, except to condemn lust and adultery. He never condemned premarital sex. He did say, according to one gospel, that divorce is never permissible.

This is why the Catholic church doesn’t allow divorce. Another gospel has him saying that divorce is permissible if one’s partner has committed adultery. He seems to Page Candy Cane Coloring Pages Cane, clearly condemn remarriage after divorce. Various churches and scholars have differed sharply on what Jesus really meant about divorce and whether one can ever divorce or ever remarry after a divorce. If Christians are serious about having the law reflect Jesus’ teachings on marriage, they should push for | Resumed a constitutional amendment banning divorce, except for scriptural causes. Real Market Analysis Request! A special religious court could be set up to determine whether a divorce or remarriage is allowed under biblical guidelines. Also, the US should never elect someone who has committed adultery, divorced his wife without just cause and Job, remarried. Like John McCain.

Once it is Template, allowed to Sheet Template | Resumed, redefine marriage as you prefer for Homosexuality, anybody might be able to redefine it according to their preference without restriciton. I don’t recall anyone saying anything about preference, IMO it is Page Candy Coloring Printable Candy, about being fair and 4+ Raffle Template Job, decent. To Betting! I’m sorry, no one has presented a convincing argument for human-dog marriages but feel free to try. If you think that man-to-man marriage is acceptable while man-to-dog is not acceptable just because dog is not humanbeing, it is completely ccontradictory logic because the man who prefer dog instead of Sheet Template | Resumed, humang being will be discriminated aaccording to your strange logic of ‘NO’ side of prop 8. True a man who wants to marry a dog doesn’t get his way. So what? A dog still isn’t a human and last time I checked is not able to Emergency Blog, enter contracts, not able to 4+ Raffle Sheet, make informed consent, in general doesn’t have the intelligence that a human does….even very stupid humans. You have to keep in mind that there can be some weird people who prefer animals to humanbeing naturally, as you insist that homosexuality is innate. But animals can’t prefer humans, at least not in Activities Performance Appraisal the sense that you need them to prefer to make a marriage (and I do hope you acknowledge marriage isn’t just about 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job having sex).

There are humans in this category as well. For example, you can’t marry someone whose in a coma. If Christians are serious about having the law reflect Jesus’ teachings on marriage, they should push for a constitutional amendment banning divorce, except for scriptural causes. The way it was before No-Fault divorce laws were written in other words. Christians were steamrolled on Student Coordinator Performance Appraisal that one too. One of the arguments against No-Fault divorce laws was that we would end up where we are today with a 50% divorce rate. 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job! A lot of good it did them to try to Statement | Resume Cv Cover, talk common sense into the activists and meddlers back then. And would you and the other proponents of monosexed “marriage” be sanguine about Sheet | Resumed throwing out No-Fault divorce laws?

HECK NO! You would fight it as nastily as you fight marriage definition amendments. Don’t even pretend otherwise. I advocate getting rid of the No-Fault laws, but that’s not where the current fight is taking place. Suggesting that that is where we should take the fight is kind of like a bait-and-switch tactic, or pointing off to space somewhere behind your opponents back and saying “What’s that?” knowing full well that you will be trying to dodge around your opponent if he gets distracted by Estate Market Homes your ruse. A special religious court could be set up to determine whether a divorce or remarriage is allowed under biblical guidelines. The annulment process in | Resumed Job the Catholic Church.

He never condemned premarital sex. Here’s the thing about pre-marital sex. It leads to adultery in one way or another. First, if a man has sex with a woman prior to marrying her, the religious view is Student Activities Performance, that they should formalize the marriage they consumated. Sheet | Resumed Job! If they don’t, and then later that man gets married to Guide To Betting Races, a different woman, he has retroactively committed adultery. Now some people might consider the second sexual relationship the adulterous one, some might consider the first relationship the 4+ Raffle Template Job adulterous one in a kind of Emergency Mechanical Blog, front-loaded sort of way. Either way, the adultery has been committed. And not just for 4+ Raffle that man, but having not married the woman he had intercourse with in the first place, they are both causing each other to commit adultery which is compounding the sin. Also, the US should never elect someone who has committed adultery, divorced his wife without just cause and remarried.

Like John McCain. We are electing a President of the country, not electing somebody to be a saint. Isn’t it a little bit hypocritical to To Betting | Killarney Races, be saying his adultery should disqualify him when you have said Bill Clinton’s adultery wasn’t such a big deal? It is surely true that there will be nobody who want to marry with dog. However my point is 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, that, if all the effort for redefinition for same sex marriage is allowed, then marriage can be redefined according to any preference. And also we can allow redefining of all other social terms. What if redefining adult? Let’s say for example, somebody want to To Betting, marry with 7 years old kid, it is prohibited at present time. However, with the similar logic of requesting for same sex marriage, somebody can complain and appeal for the permit of the kind marriage with kid.

If law enforce that kid does not have dicernment of right or wrong about the marriage, it is discriminating the kid, according to your logic. Acutally, there have been some other countries where marriage with 7 years old has been allowed. Of course, I cannot tolerate for kid to marry with adult. Likewise I cannot tolerate for 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job the marriage between same sex. Mature society should be able to set rules and restrict some freedom for common welfare. Clearly you put a lot of effort into Page Candy Coloring Printable, thinking through and depicting your position in favor of Proposition 8. However, your argument suffers from 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed enough deficiencies that it fails to support your conclusion. Marriage is a fundamental building block of Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog, society. That phrase is often used but seldom explained. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed! When I say “fundamental building block of society” I am referring to marriage’s natural creation of families. You conflate two terms here, marriage and Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter, families, base your position on the latter, and then use indirection to corral the former. Families are the building block of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, society.

Civil marriage is a legal construct to original purpose was to protect the property rights of women and the children that were, until the Activities Appraisal Pill, the eventually nearly inevitable outcome of sex. Clearly, protecting the property rights of dependents is important. However, in linking families and marriage as you do, you are appealing to the same notions of 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, human nature that animate the Page Cane Printable Candy Cane left: our nature and actions are determined by society. I doubt very much you believe that; in 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed fact, I’ll bet you believe precisely the opposite. However, without that underlying assumption, your conflation fails. And, along the way, it denigrates religious marriage, which sanctifies monogamy regardless of secular legal constructs. According to A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D, “There is no fact that has been established by social science literature more convincingly than the following: all variables considered, children are best served when reared in a home with a married mother and father.” I think that is close enough to objective truth to take as stipulated. However, as a practical matter, it is presents . Within the realm of human affairs, there will always be some children who do not have such an environment available to – Tp, them. Template | Resumed Job! Even more sadly, there are children for whom there are few options.

In order to Guide To Betting | Killarney, complete that statement, it needs to consider those children for whom the options are two: an series of foster parents, or adoption by a same-sex couple. Appealing to the advisability of married mother and father for Sheet Template children is pointless if that option is not on offer. Which leaves the Real Request | The Colorado Homes question that matters open and unaddressed: which is Sheet Template | Resumed, least bad, being raised by a married same-sex couple, or foster care? As an aside, SFAIK, same sex couples may adopt children in most, if not all, of the 50 states. Whether that is a good idea or not is Emergency – Tp, a subject for Job a separate thread that should always keep in mind the options on offer. … the same-sex culture still has elements of great concern which we ought to consider before we introduce these elements into marriage. Pain and suffering resulting from sexual disease permeate homosexual communities. According to ex-gay speaker Mike Haley, the Coloring Cane Printable odds of a straight man contracting AIDS after one heterosexual encounter are 1 in 165,000 as opposed to 1 in 175 for gay men after one homosexual encounter. I don’t have the time to prove it, but, notionally, that latter number cannot possibly be correct. Presume gay men are something like as promiscuous as you believe them to be: 5 different partners per month. If the odds of a gay man contracting AIDS are in 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed fact 1 in 175 unique encounters, then essentially all gay men are dead.

Except they aren’t, so that stat needs some explaining. More fundamentally, though, let’s take all those statistics as stipulated. So far as I know, Evangelists agree that mankind is Coordinator Performance Appraisal, fallen. Your statistics, at best, show that gays are somewhat more fallen than the 4+ Raffle Template rest of us. Which demands the question: is For Resume | Resume Cv Cover, there a fallenness threshold beyond which marriage is not allowed? If so, then you need to show it, and how gays fall on the far side. 4+ Raffle | Resumed! Otherwise, these stats, even if true, do not advance your argument even an inch towards its goal. Your moral framework needs foremost to be informed by deciding up front whether morality applies to the situation at hand. In order for something to assess the morality of something, one must first know the extent to Real Estate Analysis Request Colorado, which that thing involves a choice. For instance, (although Christians once thought otherwise), there is Sheet | Resumed, absolutely no moral component to To Betting | Killarney Races, being left handed — there is 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, no choice in Estate Market Analysis | The Homes the matter.

Similarly, no matter how much your evangelical Christian faith informs your moral framework, homosexuality is not a matter of choice. There simply is no moral component to being gay. Now, you may counter that while there is no moral component to being gay, actualization of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, that fact is immoral. Unfortunately, not only does that leave you on Plan the horns of the Euthryphro dilemma, it also presents you with a theodicy problem: why would God create a group of people and then demand that others ostracize, and even kill, them? One need not be a Christian in order to Template Job, have a compelling moral argument against homosexuality.

For example, you might be Aristotelian. If so, you might consider the anatomical design of men and women and Wedding Template | Wedding Ideas, conclude that homosexual sex is against the proper function of humans. As it happens, all mammals start existence as females. It is only through the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Y-linked expression of hormones during gestation that a female body plan becomes male. What would an Aristotelian make of that? Particularly when informed the Jamie Lee Curtis is, by Estate Analysis Request Colorado Aristotelian standards, male? Your argument in favor of Prop-8, the result of which is to impose a sectarian notion upon a non-sectarian society, simply fails to make its case. The task facing you is to convince the rest of Sheet | Resumed Job, us that allowing gays to marry will somehow corrode marriages for heterosexuals.

As others have noted (Boonton, perhaps), no amount of mayhem to to which groups of heterosexuals are particularly prone constitutes a barrier to marriage, yet requires such for gays. You attempt to It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover, make a moral case, but the very foundation of that argument disappears in the absence of choice. Finally, you make an Sheet Template | Resumed Job, appeal to anatomical design without acknowledging its basics or contingencies. Your position makes perfect sense for insisting evangelical Christians refuse the marriage sacrament to gays. However, it completely fails to make a case for similarly restricting civil marriage. The way it was before No-Fault divorce laws were written in Activities other words. Christians were steamrolled on that one too. One of the arguments against No-Fault divorce laws was that we would end up where we are today with a 50% divorce rate. Whose this ‘we’ here?

Christians? If you’re not supposed to get a divorce except for scriptual reasons then don’t get a divorce except. Are we at 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed the point here where you’re telling us gay marriage must be banned (and no-fault divorce abolished) because Christians need the gov’t to bribe them into following their religion? The annulment process in the Catholic Church. Last time I checked it was alive and well and Guide To Betting | Killarney, hasn’t fallen even though it is highly unpopular among other Christians, not supported by 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job civil marriage law and is even unpopular among many Catholics. We are electing a President of the country, not electing somebody to be a saint. Isn’t it a little bit hypocritical to be saying his adultery should disqualify him when you have said Bill Clinton’s adultery wasn’t such a big deal? I guess we just expected something more from someone from the ‘pro-American’ portion of the country. It’s not the first time smmtheory has disappointed. It is surely true that there will be nobody who want to marry with dog.

However my point is Plan – Tp Blog, that, if all the effort for 4+ Raffle Job redefinition for same sex marriage is allowed, then marriage can be redefined according to any preference. Your error is assuming the argument in Guide To Betting favor of gay marriage is simply “well that’s what some gays prefer and we should always do what people prefer”. That is not the Sheet stand supporters of gay marriage have taken for the simple reason that it is an impossible stand to take. | Resume Cv Cover! People of contradictory preferences, you would rather there be no gay people, some others would rather everyone be gay, others yet would rather be allowed to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, drive around with a nuclear bomb in their trunk. What if redefining adult? Let’s say for example, somebody want to marry with 7 years old kid, it is prohibited at present time. …. Of course, I cannot tolerate for kid to marry with adult. Analysis Request | The Colorado! Likewise I cannot tolerate for the marriage between same sex. 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job! Mature society should be able to set rules and restrict some freedom for common welfare.

And you yourself introduce the problem with your argument as well as the Candy Cane Pages solution to the question you pose. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job! Instead of asking why societal terms should ever be redefined, ask the reverse question, when are restrictions on freedoms good for the common welfare. When you look at it from that angle a lot of these questions suddenly get a lot easier. Interracial marriage bans? A restriction on freedom that harms the common welfare therefore it was proper that they were abolished. Marriage of 7 yr olds? Big common welfare problem. Planning Organizer Template! How about marriage of 17 yr olds? Well that’s a bit iffier so states of differing rules. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job! Since your argument doesn’t connect the dots, doesn’t demonstrate how gay marriage would harm the common welfare, I don’t think it makes it.

I don’t have the time to prove it, but, notionally, that latter number cannot possibly be correct. Presume gay men are something like as promiscuous as you believe them to be: 5 different partners per Pages Printable Candy, month. 1. This is kind of technical but why should one assume a bell curve distribution of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, gay promiscuity rather than say a power law distribution? The bell curve fits certain sets of data like height. Most people are a few inches around the ‘average height’ with fewer and Planning | Wedding, fewer people more distant from that average. A power law follows a distribution like income. If you calculate the average income by exluding the richest 0.05% you’ll get a radically lower number than if you include them. Removing a few thousand of Template | Resumed, America’s tallest people will not dramatically alter the | Resume average height of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, all Americans. 2. Given this possibility, even if 5 in 1 is the | Wedding Ideas population average there are gay men who are less than 5 in 4+ Raffle Template Job one..

Possibly a great number with a smalle portion being ‘super promiscious’ enough to Pages Printable Cane, impact the average dramatically. 3. 4+ Raffle! Again given this, are there no gay men who have no partners per month? Who, for whatever reason, have not had any sex or haven’t had any in Planning Organizer Template | Wedding a while? Or perhaps are having (gay) sex on Sheet Job rare occassions like what we suspect of Idaho’s Senator Larry Craig? How does the study capture these men and add their data to properly calculate the average? If part of your argument is hitched to a social science statistic then you’re on a foundation of sand and one of the worse things you can do is read too much into an average. The ‘we’ here is American society at large. That 50% divorce rate is what is generally quoted for American society as a whole, not just Christians alone. But you kind of prove my point about how advocates for Activities Coordinator monosexed “marriage” would fight against repeal of No-Fault just as nastily as they fight for monosexed “marriage”.

Last time I checked it was alive and well and hasn’t fallen even though it is Template | Resumed Job, highly unpopular among other Christians, not supported by civil marriage law and is even unpopular among many Catholics. It still fits the Emergency Plan Mechanical Blog bill of what ex-preacher was suggesting should or rather could happen. What’s your point? I don’t know why you continue to Sheet Template | Resumed, presume to speak for Page Candy Cane Coloring Printable Candy Printable Christians when you are not one. I guess we just expected something more from someone from the ‘pro-American’ portion of the country.

It’s not the first time smmtheory has disappointed. Well, yes, I can see where you would be disappointed about having your hypocrisy with respect to 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job, adultery pointed out. After all, isn’t hypocrisy considered the gravest of all sins among the moral relativists? It still fits the bill of Emergency Plan, what ex-preacher was suggesting should or rather could happen. What’s your point?

I don’t know why you continue to presume to speak for 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Christians when you are not one. I speak only for myself and I feel sorry for any group that requires you to speak for them. As for Wedding Template | Wedding Ideas the Catholic Church, I fail to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, see the problem. If you abide by their teachings about Statement | Resume marriage, you will not get remarried if divorced despite the fact that civil law has no objection (and many evangelical churchs might welcome your remarriage with open arms). The Catholic Church doesn’t require the Sheet Job gov’t to bribe people to follow their teachings, why do you? Well, yes, I can see where you would be disappointed about having your hypocrisy with respect to adultery pointed out. After all, isn’t hypocrisy considered the gravest of all sins among the Page Cane Pages Cane moral relativists? 1. You failed to point out 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed any hypocrisy on my part or anyone elses. 2. I’m not a moral relativist, but wouldn’t a ‘gravest sin’ among relativists be something of Candy Coloring Pages Printable, a contradiction? Kind of like an underdressed nudist? There is huge misunderstanding from ‘No’ side of prop 8. Most people in 4+ Raffle | Resumed ‘No’ side of prop 8 misuderstand that the Guide To Betting | Killarney Races the same sex marriage is one of civi right movement in line with the past civil right movement started in Template | Resumed Job 1960s.

The past civil right movoment was not about ‘WHAT’ but about ‘HOW’. In other words, the Emergency – Tp Blog movement has targeted to Template | Resumed, break down twisted social hierachy in order to give all social members equality. The real civil right movement have never attempted to destroy fundamental ‘WHAT’ of this society. However the same sex marriage is quite different than the real civil right movement because it is targeting to destruct our society into complete mess and Student Coordinator Performance Appraisal, uncontrollable status. They are destroying the fundamental ‘WHAT’. IT WILL EVENTUALLY TRIGGER ‘THE END OF WORLD’. And actually the destruction path might be guaranteed for 4+ Raffle Job human_being just because of this disastful concept of same sex marriage. Look beyond 20 years from now and consider how this world will be like.

I am very concerning for my next generation just because of To Betting Races, this kind of sinful movement. 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job! Please look at Activities Coordinator Performance Appraisal your conscience and watch for what will happen next. They are destroying the fundamental ‘WHAT’.IT WILL EVENTUALLY TRIGGER ‘THE END OF WORLD’. Do you always tune up the 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed rhetoric when you’re losing an argument? Look beyond 20 years from now and – Tp, consider how this world will be like. I see two likely possibilities: A: 20 years from now a tiny portion of gays use gay marriage. Many that did got burned badly when failed relationships left them dividing assets and paying alimony to partners they no longer wanted to be with. B: 20 years from now a portion of Sheet Job, gays use gay marriage. Like other demographic groups they have ‘success rates’ (defined as no divorces within 5 years of marriage) that are sometimes greater and sometiems smaller than heterosexuals as a whole or sub-cohorts of heterosexuals. In both cases the existence of Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter, gay marriage has no detectable impact on Sheet Job the far more popular heterosexual marriages (about 95% of all marriages).

Like today some churches recognize gay marriages, others do not. There is probably more acceptance of gay marriage itself in the population but again it is Performance, nearly impossible to detect any impact positive or negative on heterosexual marriage. Can you give us a plausible future scenario? I’ve asked several times now for ‘yes’ supporters to show exactly how existence of marriage for a small minority group directly impacts their ability to be good husbands, wives, fathers, and mothers. Connect the Job dots for us.

The Catholic Church doesn’t require the gov’t to Candy Cane Candy, bribe people to follow their teachings, why do you? And just where do you think I do require the Sheet government to bribe people to follow the civic law? If there is a specific argument I have made, please point it out. As I have stated, I would gladly give up any supposed benefits the Coordinator Performance Appraisal government apportions to marriage if it meant the advocates for monosexed marriage would quit advocating for government recognition. I could care less whether or not churches outside of Sheet, Christianity condone such practices. Real Estate Analysis | The Colorado Homes! There have even been churches that were nominally inside of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, Christianity who have turned their backs on Christianity and Wedding Planning Organizer | Wedding Ideas, condoned such practices as monosexed marriage. 4+ Raffle Template! What I do care about is the damage that is being done to children through the Races government recognition of monosexed marriages. Our laws should be used to protect the Template least able to Statement For Resume Cv Cover, protect themselves, and this is being used to run roughshod over the children by adults who refuse to be adults. 1. You failed to point out any hypocrisy on my part or anyone elses.

2. I’m not a moral relativist, but wouldn’t a ‘gravest sin’ among relativists be something of a contradiction? Kind of like an underdressed nudist? 1. No, I didn’t fail to point it out, you failed to acknowledge that I pointed it out. It looks like you have a mental block against recognizing that you seem to have a problem with McCain’s adultery whereas you have no problem with Clinton’s. 2. Well if you talk like a moral relativist, you might ought to expect being pegged as a moral relativist, and 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, hypocrisy IS a contradiction. Please read carefully my point in line. It is clear that the – Tp Mechanical issue of “Interracial marriage bans” is completly different with “Same sex marriage” issue. Sheet Template | Resumed Job! I believe that it was absolutely right to abolish the Interracial marriage bans. And also I STRONGLY supported for the other civil right movements of the past. Appraisal! However Homosexuality absolutely cannot be civil right movement, simply because it can destruct human_being.

If you can see further down the 4+ Raffle Sheet road, you might be able to see my point about Wedding Planning Template why it can be disatrous to the human being and next generation. What I do care about is the damage that is 4+ Raffle Job, being done to children through the Guide | Killarney Races government recognition of monosexed marriages. Our laws should be used to protect the least able to protect themselves, and this is being used to run roughshod over the children by adults who refuse to be adults. OK, please be specific here. Children are generated by heterosexuals except in the rather limited case of test tube babies. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed! So what exactly are you talking about?

looks like you have a mental block against recognizing that you seem to have a problem with McCain’s adultery whereas you have no problem with Clinton’s. I don’t have any particular problem with McCain’s adultery. I wasn’t part of his marriage, it is primarily his concern. I have my own problems to deal with. 2. Well if you talk like a moral relativist, you might ought to Emergency Plan – Tp Blog, expect being pegged as a moral relativist, and hypocrisy IS a contradiction. You ‘might ought’ put more effort into your own arguments. You asked a question and I tried to | Resumed, answer it as best I could. It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover! Please try to return the favor. Connect the dots for us because quite frankly I have no idea what you’re talking about and I suspect you’re pumping up the rhetoric without thinking about the debts your reasoning and logic skills are going to have to 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, make good on. If part of It Objective For Resume Letter, your argument is hitched to a social science statistic then you’re on a foundation of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, sand and one of the worse things you can do is read too much into an average.

Ii think we are in violent agreement here, but since my post turned out to Plan Mechanical, be a festival of editing errors, I will restate. Dustin used a number of statistics. Collectively, they beg disbelief. If homosexuals are both, as a group, promiscuous, and the rate of contracting AIDS is one in 175 unique encounters, then there are no homosexuals. Granted, I was exaggerating a little; I should have said there would be no, or very few, gays who survive past middle age. In other words, on the face of it, one of 4+ Raffle Template Job, those two statistics must be wrong. Not that it matters, because, as you (at least I think it was you) pointed out above, applying such reasoning to gays, but neglecting to Cane Pages Printable Candy, do so for 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed heterosexuals, rather reeks of hypocrisy. As I have stated, I would gladly give up any supposed benefits the government apportions to Page Cane Pages Printable Cane, marriage if it meant the advocates for monosexed marriage would quit advocating for government recognition. So, let me get this straight. Job! You want non-sectarian government to Activities Coordinator, adopt a specifically sectarian position, while allowing sects to do whatever they want? Christianity defines homosexuality as immoral.

What if Christianity is Sheet Template Job, wrong? It’s tedious work but it is often interesting to probe suspect stats a bit deeper. Whether it’s a political group or a company trying to sell you soap never underestimate how brazen statistics hawkers are with trying to snow their readers over. For example: 78% of | Resume Letter, lesbians have reported domestic abuse related problems. If you follow the link you find an unfootnoted statement that: “78% of 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, lesbians report that they have either defended themselves or fought back against an abusive partner” First problem, it is Emergency – Tp Mechanical Blog, not specified whether ‘partner’ is only female partners or female and male (there are lesbians who have had relationships with men you know). Second problem, the second page of this document lists ‘types of abuse’….including ‘instigates feelins of shame’ as part of sexual abuse, ‘financial abuse’ that includes using ‘monetary resources of the partner or of the relationship’ without the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job other’s consent….’beauty-ism’….basically this metric seems to include a lot more than what many of us think of when we hear ‘domestic abuse’. This isn’t just your ‘Burning Bed’ stuff but also what a lot of Planning | Wedding Ideas, heterosexual couples would consider fighting over money and Job, so on. Template! Not only that, if one partner in Template | Resumed Job any relationship ever felt like they were being made to feel self conscious about It Objective For Resume Cv Cover Letter their looks, intelligence, money or whatnot that too counts as ‘abuse’. What’s amazing isn’t so much a 78% abuse rate, it’s amazing that we don’t have a 100% rate for 4+ Raffle Sheet Template all relationships under this measure.

Another clue that we are seeing a distorted statistic, the phrase: “18% of this group described their behavior as self-defense or ‘trading blow for blow or insult for insult'” Insult for insult? Are we talking about an Emergency Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog, accurate measure of abuse here or are we seeing an organization with good intentions over-hyping abuse? However, within the homosexual community, infidelity is the norm. Recent studies show that 95.6% of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, gay men report infidelity in their current relationship. Numerous studies reveal that, among self-described committed homosexual couples, each individual has had an average of Student Activities Performance, 3-5 partners a year. This link is pretty amazing because it is an FRC one. What Dusty doesn’t tell us is: 29% of gay relationships in Sheet the study have lasted longer than 8 years. 29% lasted 4-7 years. 11% less than 1 year. This is a somewhat amzing 60% of relationships lasting 4 or more years.

Amazing because there is almost no legal status to Cane Pages Candy Cane Printable, hold the relationship together. It does indeed strike one as odd that gay men are enjoying 5 partners per month but at the same time a majority are sticking with one person for years. Here is the fact, conservatives know better. Years ago feminists were complaining about the superbowel being a time of record domestic violence of men against women. Conservatives took apart the numbers and demonstrated quite nicely there was no scientific basis to them at all.

So the right has…or at Sheet Template Job least had…the ability to talk intelligently about Estate Market Request | The Homes statistics. Template Job! What accounts for this newfound ignorance? So, let me get this straight. You want non-sectarian government to adopt a specifically sectarian position, while allowing sects to do whatever they want? I don’t believe that it is specifically a sectarian position. Real Request Colorado! A lot of non-believers think that monosexed “marriage” is 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, invalid also, and Page Printable, may also believe that it is immoral. I don’t care to interfere in 4+ Raffle Sheet Template what the homosexuals do in the privacy of their own sects and Organizer Template Ideas, homes.

I do believe though that the non-sectarian government should protect children from the violence that such an arrangement entails. If homosexuals want to 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, pretend they are married, they should be allowed to pretend, but since their arrangement would not naturally produce children, children should be lawfully excluded from their midst. Christianity defines homosexuality as immoral. What if Christianity is Statement For Resume Cv Cover Letter, wrong? Christianity isn’t wrong about Sheet that, but even if I grant you the position for argument’s sake, where is the harm of being told that it is immoral? If Christianity is right though, the harm is much worse thinking that it is Candy Cane Coloring Printable Cane, not. It’s tedious work but it is often interesting to probe suspect stats a bit deeper. Whether it’s a political group or a company trying to sell you soap never underestimate how brazen statistics hawkers are with trying to snow their readers over.

For example: 78% of lesbians have reported domestic abuse related problems. If you follow the link you find an 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, unfootnoted statement that: “78% of Wedding Planning, lesbians report that they have either defended themselves or fought back against an abusive partner” First problem, it is not specified whether ‘partner’ is only female partners or female and male (there are lesbians who have had relationships with men you know). Second problem, the second page of this document lists ‘types of abuse’….including ‘instigates feelins of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, shame’ as part of It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter, sexual abuse, ‘financial abuse’ that includes using ‘monetary resources of the partner or of the relationship’ without the 4+ Raffle | Resumed other’s consent….’beauty-ism’….basically this metric seems to include a lot more than what many of us think of when we hear ‘domestic abuse’. This isn’t just your ‘Burning Bed’ stuff but also what a lot of heterosexual couples would consider fighting over Student Activities Performance money and so on.

Not only that, if one partner in any relationship ever felt like they were being made to 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job, feel self conscious about their looks, intelligence, money or whatnot that too counts as ‘abuse’. What’s amazing isn’t so much a 78% abuse rate, it’s amazing that we don’t have a 100% rate for all relationships under this measure. Another clue that we are seeing a distorted statistic, the phrase: “18% of this group described their behavior as self-defense or ‘trading blow for blow or insult for insult'” Insult for Statement Cv Cover insult? Are we talking about an accurate measure of abuse here or are we seeing an 4+ Raffle, organization with good intentions over-hyping abuse? However, within the homosexual community, infidelity is the norm. Recent studies show that 95.6% of gay men report infidelity in their current relationship. Numerous studies reveal that, among self-described committed homosexual couples, each individual has had an average of 3-5 partners a year. This link is pretty amazing because it is an FRC one. What Dusty doesn’t tell us is: 29% of gay relationships in the study have lasted longer than 8 years.

29% lasted 4-7 years. 11% less than 1 year. This is a somewhat amzing 60% of Emergency Mechanical Blog, relationships lasting 4 or more years. Amazing because there is almost no legal status to hold the relationship together. Sheet | Resumed Job! It does indeed strike one as odd that gay men are enjoying 5 partners per month but at | Killarney Races the same time a majority are sticking with one person for years. Here is the fact, conservatives know better.

Years ago feminists were complaining about the superbowel being a time of record domestic violence of men against 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, women. Candy Coloring Pages Printable Candy! Conservatives took apart the numbers and 4+ Raffle Template Job, demonstrated quite nicely there was no scientific basis to them at all. Candy Cane Coloring Printable Candy Cane! So the right has…or at least had…the ability to talk intelligently about statistics. What accounts for | Resumed Job this newfound ignorance? I do believe though that the Emergency Plan Mechanical Blog non-sectarian government should protect children from the Sheet | Resumed Job violence that such an arrangement entails. What exactly are you talking about? What exactly are you talking about? I am referring to the violence done to children by exposing them to homosexuals pretending to Guide | Killarney Races, be married to each other. Whether it’s a political group or a company trying to sell you soap never underestimate how brazen statistics hawkers are with trying to snow their readers over.

This is 4+ Raffle Job, a somewhat amzing 60% of relationships lasting 4 or more years. Amazing because there is Real Estate Request | The Colorado, almost no legal status to Template | Resumed Job, hold the relationship together. It does indeed strike one as odd that gay men are enjoying 5 partners per month but at To Betting Races the same time a majority are sticking with one person for years. Need I say more Mr. Statistics Hawker? So your not actually talking about gay marriage but children ‘exposed’ to gay couples. Sheet Job! OK, next time please let us know before post 50 that we can ignore you. Need I say more Mr. Statistics Hawker? Nope, you guys are caught hawking bum stats.

I wouldn’t say anything more if I were you. I do believe though that the non-sectarian government should protect children from the violence that such an arrangement entails. What point are you trying to make? Even if gay marriages to subject children to some sort of Page Cane Coloring Printable Candy Cane Printable, unique violence (I don’t have time to track down the link, but IIRC, lesbian couples have a far lower rate of child abuse than heterosexual couples with one step parent, particularly where the step parent is male), that really has nothing to do with gay marriage. Gays may already adopt children in Sheet Template | Resumed Job many, if not most, states. Emergency – Tp Mechanical Blog! In all states, they can produce children through artificial insemination or surrogate motherhood. If that is what bothers you, than is 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, what you should be fighting against. However, as I mentioned above, even granting there is no fact that has been established by social science literature more convincingly than the following: all variables considered, children are best served when reared in a home with a married mother and father , that forces a false dichotomy. For those children adopted by Page Cane Pages Printable gay couples, the choice isn’t between a family with a mother and father, but rather between an adopted family, or endless foster care. Given the true choice on Sheet Template Job offer, which is Planning Organizer | Wedding, best for children? Christianity isn’t wrong about Template that, but even if I grant you the | Resume Cv Cover Letter position for argument’s sake, where is the harm of being told that it is Sheet | Resumed, immoral?

Oh, the same kind of To Betting | Killarney Races, harm that comes from certain Hindu sects deciding those suffering from cleft palate are possessed by the devil, or certain Christian sects having (no longer, thank goodness) that being left handed meant the Sheet Template | Resumed Job same thing. I could go on, but I won’t, because the fatal weakness in that statement is how utterly un-American it is. You are branding every member of | Resume Cv Cover Letter, a group by the presumed characteristics of that group. That is pure tribalism. In contrast, the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job American ideal rests upon individual merit. Branding an entire group immoral because of an innate characteristic reeks of the former. Which, BTW, is what makes the Christian / Islamic insistence that homosexuality is immoral so desperately wrong.

There is Coordinator Appraisal, no morality without agency. Sheet | Resumed! Gays have no choice in the matter, any more than straights do. Sex acts have no inherent moral value. The moral value attending a sex act derives wholly from For Resume | Resume Cv Cover context: consensual sex within a monogamous relationship is moral, no matter the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed gender of the Wedding Organizer participants. To conclude otherwise, as I mentioned above, leaves you on the rocks of a theodicy problem for which you have no answer. What point are you trying to make. I do not remember the exact phraseology that Pope John Paul II used in saying it, but essentially he said that a homosexual couple raising a child does damage to that child. Branding an entire group immoral because of an innate characteristic reeks of the former. Which, BTW, is what makes the Christian / Islamic insistence that homosexuality is immoral so desperately wrong.

There is no morality without agency. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job! Gays have no choice in the matter, any more than straights do. Not so, homosexuality is a choice, not an innate quality. Every consensual sex act requires a choice of whether to Page Cane Cane Printable, engage in it or not. The moral value attending a sex act derives wholly from context: consensual sex within a monogamous relationship is moral, no matter the gender of the participants. Setting aside the fact that I disagree about whether or not the Sheet | Resumed Job moral value of a sex act derives entirely from the context, your context is out of whack. Wedding Planning | Wedding! The only morally good context is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, between husband and wife. To conclude otherwise, as I mentioned above, leaves you on the rocks of a theodicy problem for which you have no answer. Given the proper context, there is no need for theodicy, there is no conundrum, it is simple and straight-forward without nuance. Homosexual sex is not between husband and For Resume Letter, wife, so it is therefore immoral. I do not remember the Template | Resumed exact phraseology that Pope John Paul II used in saying it, but essentially he said that a homosexual couple raising a child does damage to Guide Races, that child.

You’re right, such children should just be aborted. More seriously, though, this has nothing to do with gay marriage. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template! The question to ask is what is the alternative? By definition adopted children are cases where, for whatever reason, the heterosexual parents are unable to implement the ideal for their child (whether it’s their fault or not). You can complain, I suppose, about children created through IVF for gay couples but the question is For Resume Cv Cover Letter, what is the alternative? Would you rather have life with two gay parents or have no life at all? I do not remember the exact phraseology that Pope John Paul II used in saying it, but essentially he said that a homosexual couple raising a child does damage to that child. With respect to what, exactly? While I haven’t checked up on | Resumed Job this to be sure, I’ll bet all adoption agencies put homosexual couples way down the priority list.

That means, IIRC, gay couples are adopting children no one else will. So, I’ve asked before, and I’ll ask again: which is worse, adoption by a gay couple, or foster care? Not so, homosexuality is a choice, not an innate quality. Homosexuality, i.e., possessing a mating preference for the same sex, is as innate as handedness or eye color. Orientation and action are two different things. Which leaves the theodicy problem still in Guide | Killarney Races front of you. You could relieve that problem by concluding that those who wrote the Bible presumed the drive behind same-sex acts was a choice, and, therefore, concluded — wrongly — that engaging in them was based upon choice. Of course, to do that would hole Biblical credibility below the water line. Heck of a place — stuck between the devil of Template | Resumed, theodicy, and the deep blue sea of discrediting the Bible. The only To Betting Races, morally good context is between husband and wife.

Why? What it it about homosexual sex that makes it immoral? Beware of the Euthyphros dilemma, BTW. Full disclosure: my brother is gay. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template! Consequently, I have a fair amount of Page Coloring Pages, first hand experience with gays. The notion that they are somehow irredeemably immoral in Sheet | Resumed ways the rest of us are not is Organizer Template | Wedding Ideas, complete crap, and deserves precisely the same respect that, say, anti-Judaism does. Why are my posts not posting? It appears that if I post concerning the subject at 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job hand, no post. But if I post concerning . . . nothing . . Emergency Plan – Tp! . it posts. Why? What does it mean when it says my post is being held by the owner of the blog?

This blog has a spam filter. Sometimes whenever there’s an issue that involves any sexuality-type of | Resumed Job, topic it snags comments, thinking they are spam. I sometimes email Joe when that happens or you can try to Real Market Request Colorado Homes, rewrite your blog using slightly different words (like SSM instead of same sex marriage). I don’t know if Joe is still managing the filter or not so there might be no one at 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job the switch to approve comments that are held. It’s usually better to rewrite your post because by Wedding the time the 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed comment is cleared people will mostly be reading only the newest comments at the bottom of the thread and will not notice that a comment has appeared in Page Coloring Pages Printable Printable the center. “Not so, homosexuality is | Resumed Job, a choice, not an innate quality.” I feel that this really is at the root of a lot of | Resume Cv Cover Letter, misunderstandings about homosexuality. It is quite definitely not a choice. Trust me on this.

I’ve always found it an 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, apt metaphor to compare homosexuality to Real Estate Market Request Colorado Homes, left-handedness. Both are inbuilt preferences – inclinations towards certain behaviour. Most people are right-handed, just as most people are heterosexual. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed! Homosexuals CAN teach themselves to sleep with women in the same way that a left-handed person CAN teach themselves to write or use scissors with their right hand, but it will always feel counter-intuitive for Plan Blog them. 4+ Raffle Sheet Job! For them, it will never feel (ironically considering common objections to Statement Cv Cover, homosexuality) natural. It is a choice whether to admit to yourself and others around you that you are gay. But you can no more change your sexual orientation than you can change which hand you prefer.

Just so you know, you’ve erected a straw man with you theodicy problem or the Bible’s wrong canard. The doctrine of original sin answers why someone’s sexual orientation can be perverted even from birth, and 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, someone’s choice to act on a sinful impulse is no excuse. Just because someone may like to steal…alot…is no excuse for them to pillage the Planning Organizer Template | Wedding Ideas village. Wow! Maybe I’m in 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job a little gay bubble in Los Angeles, but all the gay couples I know (and I know a ton, mind you) are older and very monogamous.

In fact, they are quite boring. Some have adopted, and they are wonderful parents. I think many ignorant folk here imagine the | The Colorado Homes gay community as just guys in 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed ass-less chaps on a gay pride float. It would be like thinking of Coordinator Appraisal, heterosexuals on Spring Break in Fort Lauderdale. I still haven’t heard from any of you a good argument on exactly how two women walking the 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job aisle will personally ruin your own marriage. Whether it’s a political group or a company trying to sell you soap never underestimate how brazen statistics hawkers are with trying to Wedding Organizer | Wedding, snow their readers over. And not long after you wrote that, in the very same comment even, you started hawking statistics yourself. Were you trying to snow the readers over? You made your own interpretation of statistics to favor your argument. This is a somewhat amzing 60% of relationships lasting 4 or more years. Amazing because there is almost no legal status to 4+ Raffle | Resumed, hold the relationship together.

It does indeed strike one as odd that gay men are enjoying 5 partners per month but at Guide | Killarney the same time a majority are sticking with one person for years. Would you think it so odd if the same statistics applied to married heterosexuals? I predict that you would not, and that you would attribute it to infidelity. You left unstated your implication that the statistics were contradictory and wrong based on your assumption that there was no infidelity in the more or less long-term relationships between practicing homosexuals. And not long after you wrote that, in the very same comment even, you started hawking statistics yourself.

Yea I looked at some of the reports that were being cited by 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job YOU GUYS. You left unstated your implication that the statistics were contradictory and wrong based on Guide To Betting | Killarney your assumption that there was no infidelity in the more or less long-term relationships between practicing homosexuals. I certainly made no assumption that there would be no infidelity among long term gay couples nor did I assume that infidelity rates would be equal to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, or lower than heterosexual couples. Take a peek at post 48 if you need a refresher. I suspect all things being equal long term lesbian relationships would probably have lower infidelity rate than heterosexuals as a whole while long term gay male relationships would have a higher one…. Would you think it so odd if the same statistics applied to married heterosexuals? No but that’s not the point. The point is it’s pretty amazing if the Estate Market Analysis | The only information you had was Richard’s sensationalistic reading of the primary sources.

While I haven’t checked up on this to be sure, I’ll bet all adoption agencies put homosexual couples way down the priority list. Some of them, mostly religiously affiliated adoption services. I don’t believe that publicly funded adoption services do place homosexual couples below heterosexual couples. Catholic affiliated adoption services certainly do not place children with homosexual couples. Activists sometimes apply legal pressure to 4+ Raffle Template, force them to, but usually that sort of Activities Appraisal, coercion only Template, persuades them to Wedding Ideas, shut down rather than operate against doctrinal beliefs and policy. Between the two choices of foster home care and placement with a homosexual couple, the 4+ Raffle Sheet foster home placement is preferable in my opinion. Homosexuality, i.e., possessing a mating preference for the same sex, is as innate as handedness or eye color.

To pick a nit with your statement… homosexual practice is not a mating practice. Homosexual acts can no more produce offspring than self pleasuring alone at home. If a person really wants to mate, they go to the opposite sex. Preferences are choices. Putting little or no thought into it does not make it any less a choice than a well thought out decision. Between the two choices of foster home care and placement with a homosexual couple, the foster home placement is preferable in Planning Template my opinion. Florida, I believe, prohibits gay adoption but permits gay foster parents. Template! Forcing a kid to grow up with no real parents, to live on edge of being whisked away from the caretakers he lives with isn’t doing them any favors. The call that should be made here is what is best for Planning Organizer Template | Wedding Ideas the child, not the ideological fixations of the evangelical right. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed! If they want to To Betting Races, stop gay adoption they should swarm the adoption agencies with applications from | Resumed well adjusted, happy heterosexual couples open to adding adopted and foster kids to It Objective Statement | Resume Cv Cover Letter, their families. If they want to stop gay adoption they should swarm the adoption agencies with applications from well adjusted, happy heterosexual couples open to adding adopted and foster kids to their families.

I totally agree! This whole argument seems to me, as a Christian, rather fruitless. Here is why evangelical Christians will never accept gay marriage: The Bible says that homosexual behavior is sinful. Period. It doesn’t matter what stats are brought up, and it doesn’t matter about biology. Template | Resumed Job! The only way you can convince an evangelical/Bible believing Christian to Wedding Planning Template | Wedding, ever vote against Prop 8 is to make them take the Bible less seriously. Conversely, I seriously doubt that statistics are going to convince a homosexual that he or she is an unfit parent b/c some homosexuals are promiscuous or mean or whatever.

I’m not going to stop pursuing adoption b/c some other “Christian” beats their children. That’s ridiculous. The problem here for anti-Prop 8 folks is 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, not stats; it’s the Bible. For Resume! Homosexual sex, just like heterosexual sex outside of marriage, is sinful. The only way you can convince an evangelical/Bible believing Christian to ever vote against Prop 8 is to make them take the Template Job Bible less seriously. The Bible does not require a scorched earth, take no prisoners jihad against all secular law.

Don’t believe in gay marriage, don’t get gay married. Cane Printable! Reject membership in any Church that has gay marriage. Tell gay married friends that you think they are making a major mistake with their lives. If they are convinced by your arguments, great. If not you leave them alone. This is what Catholics who take the Template | Resumed church’s doctrine on divorce seriously. Just so you know, you’ve erected a straw man with you theodicy problem or the Bible’s wrong canard.

The doctrine of original sin answers why someone’s sexual orientation can be perverted even from Page Coloring Pages Printable Candy birth, and someone’s choice to act on a sinful impulse is no excuse. Just because someone may like to steal…alot…is no excuse for them to pillage the village. No, I didn’t erect a strawman. This is very much a theodicy problem. How do you vindicate divine goodness and providence in light of the fact that God specifically created homosexuals, who have utterly no choice in the matter, then went on to direct people to kill those caught engaging in homosexual acts? This goes well beyond the doctrine of original sin. Your analogy to theft is 4+ Raffle Template, faulty. Until, that is, you can demonstrate how homosexuality breaks your leg or picks your pocket. Put it another way, other than on account of the Bible says so, why is homosexuality immoral?

I don’t believe that publicly funded adoption services do place homosexual couples below heterosexual couples. Actually, they do. Every adoption agency I have ever heard of does extensive background checks, and puts M-F married couples at the top of the list (all other things being equal; clearly, there could be issues rendering some couples relatively unfit). Catholic affiliated adoption services certainly do not place children with homosexual couples. Not anymore, but they have. The Catholic Charities closed its adoption program in Massachusetts not because of the state’s gay marriage law but because of an Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog, existing gay anti-discrimination law. In fact, the charity had voluntarily placed older foster children in gay and lesbian households — the most willing to take hard-to-place children — until the Sheet | Resumed Job church hierarchy was alerted and demanded that adoptions conform to the church’s religious teaching, which was in conflict with state law. Raising once again the question: is it better that children grow up in foster care, or be adopted by Estate Analysis | The Colorado a gay couple? Neither your opinion, nor mine matters here.

There is an objective truth out there, what is it? To pick a nit with your statement… homosexual practice is not a mating practice. Strictly speaking it is, because it is the result of the drive to mate. Putting little or no thought into it does not make it any less a choice than a well thought out decision. Is your heterosexuality a choice? Could you decide to engage in homosexuality? I’m going to go out on Sheet Job a limb here: No, and It Objective For Resume | Resume Letter, No.

You are denying to others that which you assume for yourself. Here is why evangelical Christians will never accept gay marriage: The Bible says that homosexual behavior is | Resumed Job, sinful. Period. That amounts to Candy Cane Pages Cane Printable, the good German defense. Sheet Template | Resumed Job! (See the Euthyphros dilemma, above). Thanks for Estate Analysis | The Colorado Homes the info . . . The Bible does not require a scorched earth, take no prisoners jihad against all secular law. Certainly not, but we still get a vote. And if we think a practice is evil, then we can vote no (or yes, as the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job case may be.) In this case, I think homosexual sex is not only evil, I think calling the union of Guide, two homosexuals ‘marriage’ is absurd. The Bible says it is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, wickedness in no uncertain terms.

What else can I say? Now my reply is To Betting | Killarney, being held up … You’re not being asked to vote on Template whether or not you think gay sex is evil or not anymore than you are asked to vote on Activities Coordinator Performance whether people who marry for money rather than love are evil or whether it’s evil to ditch your wife after she gets disfigured in a car accident…. There are plenty of things that one thinks are evil that are nonetheless legal and it doesn’t follow that just being evil is sufficient to justify making it illegal. Just so you know, you’ve erected a straw man with you theodicy problem or the Bible’s wrong canard. The doctrine of 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, original sin answers why someone’s orientation can be perverted even from birth, and someone’s choice to act on Coordinator Performance a sinful impulse is no excuse. Just because someone may like to steal…alot…is no excuse for them to pillage the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed village. No, I didn’t erect a strawman. This is very much a theodicy problem. How do you vindicate divine goodness and providence in light of the Emergency Plan – Tp Mechanical Blog fact that God specifically created homos*xuals, who have utterly no choice in 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job the matter, then went on to direct people to kill those caught engaging in homos*xual acts? This goes well beyond the Wedding Planning Organizer Template | Wedding doctrine of original sin.

Your analogy to theft is 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, faulty. Until, that is, you can demonstrate how someone else’s being gay breaks your leg or picks your pocket. Put it another way, other than on account of the Bible says so, why is being gay immoral? I don’t believe that publicly funded adoption services do place homos*xual couples below heteros*xual couples. Actually, they do. Coordinator Appraisal! Every adoption agency I have ever heard of does extensive background checks, and puts M-F married couples at the top of the list (all other things being equal; clearly, there could be issues rendering some couples relatively unfit). Catholic affiliated adoption services certainly do not place children with same gender couples.

Not anymore, but they have. The Catholic Charities closed its adoption program in Massachusetts not because of the state’s gay marriage law but because of an 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, existing gay anti-discrimination law. In fact, the charity had voluntarily placed older foster children in gay and Guide Races, lesbian households — the most willing to take hard-to-place children — until the church hierarchy was alerted and demanded that adoptions conform to the church’s religious teaching, which was in conflict with state law. Raising once again the question: is 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, it better that children grow up in foster care, or be adopted by a gay couple? Neither your opinion, nor mine matters here. There is an objective truth out Student Activities Coordinator there, what is 4+ Raffle Template Job, it? To pick a nit with your statement… homos*xual practice is not a mating practice. Strictly speaking it is, because it is the result of the | Resume Cv Cover drive to mate. Putting little or no thought into it does not make it any less a choice than a well thought out decision. Is your being straight a choice?

Could you decide to Template | Resumed, become gay, even for a day? I’m going to go out on a limb here: No, and No. You are denying to It Objective Statement Cv Cover, others that which you assume for 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job yourself. Here is why evangelical Christians will never accept gay marriage: The Bible says that gay behavior is sinful. Period. That amounts to the good German defense. (See the Emergency – Tp Euthyphros dilemma, above). Yes, you did erect a strawman. Presumably, you are arguing against someone like myself. 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job! I believe that men are inherently sinful b/c we fell in Adam.

God is not obligated to rescue us from sin of any kind: homos*xual s*x is just one of those. It’s no problem of “theodicy” because we are all guilty of sin. It goes like this: God created man good. Man sinned and became sinful. God is under no obligation to rectify this (even though He has for all who believe in Jesus.) People perish, Skipper, because they refuse to Coordinator, believe the truth of God in Sheet Template Jesus Christ. Do you want to escape the wrath to come?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. If you don’t believe and Template | Wedding, you perish, don’t blame God. Put it another way, other than on account of the Bible says so, why is being gay immoral? The Bible gives us truth. I read this as saying, “Other than on account of Template | Resumed, it being true that homosexuality is immoral, why is being gay immoral?” What I think and you think is irrelevant if the Bible is true.

Why should I leave the Appraisal Bible as true for someone else’s stats and pontifications? That amounts to the good German defense. Does this look like German to you?: “Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Job kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9). Besides, Thomas Aquinas and others have dealt with the supposed Euthyphros dilemma before. He also found it to Organizer | Wedding, be a false dilemma. Here’s one example I took from the “Stand to Template | Resumed, Reason” site: An objective standard exists (this avoids the first horn of the dilemma). However, the standard is Emergency Plan – Tp Mechanical, not external to God, but internal (avoiding the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job second horn). Morality is grounded in the immutable character of Candy Cane Coloring Pages Printable Cane Printable, God, who is perfectly good. His commands are not whims, but rooted in His holiness.

My point in Template all this is that you will never win a Bible believing Christian to your view. Conversely, I don’t know why anyone would be persuaded of the Biblical view unless they have already submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Is your being straight a choice? Could you decide to become gay, even for a day? I’m going to Organizer Template | Wedding, go out on 4+ Raffle Template Job a limb here: No, and Student Coordinator Performance Appraisal, No. That was indeed going out on 4+ Raffle Job a limb, and Guide, the limb wasn’t even there to go out on. Yes, my personal s-exuality is a choice. If I chose to practice homos-exuality, I could. In fact, the 4+ Raffle Template charity had voluntarily placed older foster children in gay and lesbian households — the most willing to take hard-to-place children — until the church hierarchy was alerted and demanded that adoptions conform to the church’s religious teaching, which was in conflict with state law. Let me translate this for you since you have erred. Some individuals within the agency went against Church doctrine to place those children in homos-exual settings.

It was NOT agency policy to be non-conforming to Church teaching. When the Church heirarchy found out about it, the people that erred in Emergency Blog conformance were told to conform. In other words, if your employer has a policy that none of the workers smokes at work and you sneakily do so, does that mean that your employer’s policy allows workers to smoke at work? Strictly speaking it is, because it is the result of the Sheet Template | Resumed drive to mate. No, it is Real Estate Analysis | The Homes, borne of a desire to self-pleasure. I THINK SAYIN YES TO PROP 8 IS HORRIBLE… I WOULD HAVE VOTED NO BUT IAM ONLY 17 YRS OLD.. I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD MARRY PEOPLE WHO THE LOVE. Sheet | Resumed! THERE IS NO RIGHT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM CURTIAN PEOPLE.. WHAT IF THEY SAID NOBODY CANT MARRY THE LOVE OF THEIR LIVES..

ITS NOT RIGHT.. IT DOSENT MATTER WHO U MARRY OR WHAT COLOR OR RACE.. EVERYONE SHOULD GET THE SAME RIGHT AS EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.. ITS NOT EVEN PEOPLES BUISNESS WHO PEOPLE MARRY ANYWAYZ.. NO ONE SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY.. VOTING YES TO ME IS BULLS**T.. THIS IS MY OPINION.. AND I STICK WITH IT.. EVEN IN THE CONSTITUTION SAYS PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME..

SO UR GOIN AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION.. I THINK SAYIN YES TO PROP 8 IS HORRIBLE… I WOULD HAVE VOTED NO BUT IAM ONLY 17 YRS OLD.. I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD MARRY PEOPLE WHO THE LOVE. THERE IS NO RIGHT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM CURTIAN PEOPLE.. WHAT IF THEY SAID NOBODY CANT MARRY THE LOVE OF THEIR LIVES.. ITS NOT RIGHT.. IT DOSENT MATTER WHO U MARRY OR WHAT COLOR OR RACE.. EVERYONE SHOULD GET THE SAME RIGHT AS EVERYONE IN THE WORLD..

ITS NOT EVEN PEOPLES BUISNESS WHO PEOPLE MARRY ANYWAYZ.. NO ONE SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY.. VOTING YES TO ME IS BULLS**T.. THIS IS MY OPINION.. AND I STICK WITH IT.. EVEN IN THE CONSTITUTION SAYS PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME.. To Betting! SO UR GOIN AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION..

SMMTheory – Having gay sex does not make you gay. WANTING to have gay sex makes you gay. A gay person COULD sleep with a woman just as you COULD sleep with a man. Sheet! But it wouldn’t make him straight or you gay. What makes a person gay is Student Performance, their personal desires and inner thoughts, not their actions. And these are things obviously beyond our control. SMMTheory – And how did you arrive at | Resumed the conclusion that homosexuality is about self-pleasuring? Has it ever occured to you that gay people fall in Student Coordinator Performance Appraisal love? They are human beings too.

With regard to strawmen, you are evading the point at hand. The theodicy problem here is squaring God’s goodness and providence with God specifically creating people whose mating preference is for those of Sheet Template Job, their own gender, then specifically commanding people to kill them (Lev 20:13 — well, men anyway) when acting upon the drive God uniquely gave them, then declared sinful in all its manifestations. This goes beyond problematic human nature (ignoring for the moment how God could have created men good and sinful at the same time) by placing a unique curse on Student Activities a few people. Of course God does under no obligation to rectify that which God has caused. However, that is no advertisement for God’s goodness and providence. Hence, the unique theodicy problem: specifically creating a special kind of sinfulness, then directing people to 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job, kill when it occurs. Does this look like German to Printable Candy Cane, you? Your citation of 1 Cor 6:9 is to assume the Good German defense. The inhabitants of that list are uniquely condemned, and you agree without questioning at all why.

Among the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job infractions listed, homos-xuality is unique in that, in and of itself, it picks no one’s pocket, nor breaks anyone’s leg. The moment you accept something as so purely by argument from authority, you have adopted the Good German defense. Beyond that, though, who does that list omit? Anyone? You? I seem to remember Jesus saying something to the effect that sexually immoral thinking is just as bad as act itself. Consequently, all you have managed to conclude here is Candy Coloring Printable, that homos-xuals are just as, but no more, condemned than the rest of us. Besides, Thomas Aquinas and others have dealt with the supposed Euthyphros dilemma before. He also found it to 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, be a false dilemma. Here’s one example I took from the “Stand to Reason” site: “An objective standard exists (this avoids the first horn of the It Objective | Resume Cv Cover dilemma).

However, the standard is not external to 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, God, but internal (avoiding the second horn). Morality is grounded in the immutable character of God, who is perfectly good. It Objective Statement Cv Cover Letter! His commands are not whims, but rooted in His holiness.” The trouble with this being that once the theological debris is cleared and you understand what it is they’re getting at, you find yourself right back at the first horn. If goodness is part of God’s nature, then goodness is not something God has any control over, and divine command theory is incorrect. That was indeed going out on a limb, and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, the limb wasn’t even there to go out on. Yes, my personal s-exuality is a choice. If I chose to practice homos-exuality, I could.

That is an It Objective Statement For Resume Cv Cover Letter, empty assertion. You could choose to dress a pig in a tutu and paint it green. But since you never would actually make that choice, making that statement is no better than attempting to Template | Resumed, assert a null. Let me translate this for you since you have erred. Some individuals within the agency went against Estate Market Analysis, Church doctrine to place those children in Job homos-exual settings. It was NOT agency policy to be non-conforming to Church teaching. I didn’t err — it actually happened; whether it accorded with Church doctrine is Real Estate Market | The Homes, a separate matter.

However, it is worth bringing up in its own right, because it reiterates a question I have raised before, but you have avoided. Which is worse, having same-s*x couples adopt a child, or that child being raised in foster homes? If the latter (and I strongly suspect that is true), then Church doctrine amounts to enforcing a choice detrimental to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, the children for whom the ideal choice does not exist. I’m glad I don’t have to | Killarney, defend that position. Strictly speaking it is, because it is the result of the drive to mate. No, it is borne of a desire to self-pleasure. No more than heteros-xuality is. That the coupling can’t result in offspring doesn’t mean the Sheet | Resumed desire to couple doesn’t have the same basis.

IMHO, gays should have simply left well enough alone for another ten years. By which time nearly everyone will view this kerfuffle through the same lens we now view, say, miscegenation: what the heck were they thinking? In the meantime, there is Market | The Colorado, nothing to | Resumed, be gained by annoying those whose religious precepts still make it moral to ostracize an entire group of Guide To Betting | Killarney, people simply for the way they were born, for doing something that causes no one else any harm. What portion of the population was conceived out of a motive for self-pleasure versus a purposeful motive of mating? Well, you partially got my point concerning human nature. I’m not going to 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, go over the supposed two horns of the dilemma you presented though. It has been satisfactorily answered for a few hundred years now. Your “Good German” argument is precisely my point, except we’re not “Good Germans,” we’re “Good Evangelicals.” (Some of whom happen to be good Germans.) All Bible-believing Christians appeal to the Bible for To Betting Races their final authority.

We believe it to Sheet Template | Resumed, be an infallible source of truth. Did you not know that? We have a host of reasons for believing this to be true, and you have probably heard them before and we’d stray from the | Resume Letter point if we want there. So if your point is that I’ve believed that homosexuality is immoral simply b/c I read it in the Bible and accept it as authoritative, I’m willing to concede that. There are other reasons for 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job believing this to be so, but that, in Page Candy Coloring Printable Candy the end, is 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed, why evangelicals vote “Yes” to Activities Coordinator, Prop 8. Everyone, ultimately, accepts an argument from authority. I do not accept the authority of Scripture uncritcally, there are reasons.

But I’ve tipped my hand for you and Sheet Template | Resumed, shown you my cards. you know my source of authority. But it’s not enough for you to smell my rotten egg; you’ve got to lay your own. What is your authority? Man’s reason? Here’s the best part of what you said: Your citation of 1 Cor 6:9 is to assume the Good German defense. The inhabitants of Emergency – Tp, that list are uniquely condemned, and Template, you agree without questioning at all why. Among the infractions listed, homos-xuality is Activities Performance Appraisal, unique in that, in 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed and of itself, it picks no one’s pocket, nor breaks anyone’s leg. Beyond that, though, who does that list omit? Anyone?

You? I seem to – Tp Mechanical Blog, remember Jesus saying something to the effect that sexually immoral thinking is just as bad as act itself. I apologize if I wasn’t clear before, and though I’d be happy to talk about 4+ Raffle Sheet Template it, I’m not interested in this forum in outlining all the ways in which homosexuality is harmful to those who practice it and for those who approve of it. My answers are Biblical anyway, and Coloring Pages Printable Cane Printable, as I said before, I would not expect anyone to believe them if they haven’t first submitted to the Lordship of Jesus Christ anyway. But you are right.

1 Cor. 6:9 condemns all sorts of people in this passage. And Jesus did say that even calling your brother a “fool” puts one in danger of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, hellfire. So yeah, you’re right about Plan Blog Jesus being strict on sins other than those that pick my pocket and break my leg. So I whole-heartedly agree with this statement you made, and I applaud it: Consequently, all you have managed to conclude here is that homos-xuals are just as, but no more, condemned than the rest of us. There is hope for sinners in the resurrected Jesus Christ. Template | Resumed Job! Swindlers, fornicators et al. That’s where I always want to wind up in the conversation. Before someone can see Christ Jesus as the only hope, they need to be aware of the reason that they need a hope, and pretending that certain things that are sinful and – Tp, evil are actually good and approved will have the 4+ Raffle Job result of letting them continue to perdition without warning. Our real disagreement, the root of our disagreement, does not revolve around statistics and love and sexual inclination.

It revolves around what you and I believe about Jesus Christ and whether or not the Bible is Page Cane Printable, true. Right? We believe [the Bible] to be an infallible source of truth. That is the problem. It is 4+ Raffle Template, not infallible (Thou shalt not kill, thall shalt kill gays caught in For Resume Letter the act). 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed! And, while it may be a source of truth, that does not mean everything in it is true. The problem Evangelicals are faced with here is asserting homos-xuality is ipso facto immoral, because the Bible says so. No doubt, it clearly does. However, as I mentioned above, the notion of morality applies only to the extent there is free will. Because of this, among the very few who still insist being gay is a matter of choice, Evangelicals are prominent. Student Performance Appraisal! Yield on the matter of choice, then the whole question of morality starts looking irrelevant.

Worse, it provokes the theodicy problem that you have pretty much ignored. Theodicy, in Sheet Template | Resumed Job its simple form, attempts to vindicate divine goodness and providence in the view of the existence of evil. That really isn’t particularly difficult: humans would not be humans without free will; free will entails evil. However, that question gets much harder to deal with when acknowledging that God specifically created a subset of people who, having no choice in the matter, were going to be the target of God-directed ostracism, opprobrium, and murder. People whose humanity, by Real Estate Market Request | The Colorado Homes the way, makes them as dependent upon mental and 4+ Raffle Sheet, physical affection as you are. Of course, God can do anything God wants. But, if the Races words “goodness” and “providence” are to have any meaning whatsoever, then creating gays presents a glaring contradiction. That contradiction can only be resolved by giving up on theodicy, or concluding that, in the case, the Bible is wrong: being gay is not immoral, and morality of acting on 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed that impulse is contained wholly within context: monogamous homos-xuality is no more immoral than monogamous heteros-xuality. Yielding that, however, admits that the Organizer | Wedding Bible is not an infallible source of truth; rather, it contains assertions that are presented as true, but are, in fact, morally indefensible. What is your authority? Man’s reason?

Well, yes. Words have meanings. In order for an action to be immoral, the actor must have a meaningful choice, the action cannot be imposed upon someone else, and the action cannot significantly impose upon those not parties to the act. By all these measures, homos-xuality is no more immoral than heteros-xuality, because neither, absent context, has any moral content whatsoever. In other words, on 4+ Raffle Job this score, the Page Coloring Pages Printable Bible’s assertions are simply wrong. Whoever wrote those words was operating under a fundamental misapprehension, and falling prey to one of the most pernicious elements of human nature: the desire to demonize those who are different. I’m not interested in this forum in outlining all the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job ways in which homosexuality is harmful to those who practice it and for those who approve of it. Well, perhaps you should be. The alternative is to Student Activities Performance, insist upon Sheet Template | Resumed the immorality of a group of people while leaving on the table precisely why they are immoral.

To the extent your answers are Biblical, the To Betting | Killarney insistence upon making secular marriage unavailable to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, gays crumbles. There is hope for sinners in the resurrected Jesus Christ. Swindlers, fornicators et al. So, what happens to a monogamous gay couple who accepts Jesus as their savior? Are they uniquely condemned, as opposed to everyone else who accepts Jesus? If not, and I see no Biblical reason to conclude otherwise, then your citation of Organizer Ideas, this passage doesn’t seem particularly relevant to Sheet, the matter at hand. Our real disagreement, the root of our disagreement, does not revolve around statistics and love and sexual inclination. It revolves around what you and I believe about Jesus Christ and whether or not the Bible is true.

Right? Full disclosure: I am an agnostic areligionist. (Agnostic, because I think the question of whether a supreme being exists is unanswerable; areligionist because I think all religions are man made out of whole cloth). Now, that doesn’t mean that I would necessarily disagree with the conclusions of a scripturally based argument, regardless of how I think the Bible came to be. In this case, though, Evangelicals have arrived at Plan Mechanical Blog a conclusion I believe to be profoundly immoral. That is what this revolves around. That is the problem. It is not infallible. Well there you go! Is that an argument from authority, btw? I’ll give you mine, “Yes, it is!”

In this case, though, Evangelicals have arrived at a conclusion I believe to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, be profoundly immoral. Student! That is what this revolves around. In other words, “Evangelicals have believed the Bible, which I believe is profoundly immoral in regards to how it views homosexuality.” In another thread, Boonton mentioned that he believed himself to be an 4+ Raffle Template, above average guy who is right about 54% of the time. Guide! I agree that he is both intelligent and 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, probably right more than he is wrong. Page Candy Candy Cane Printable! So, why should I trade the Bible that is 100% right for genius that is right only 60% or so? The Bible is 100% accurate, is it? May I ask – which version?

To name just a handful of the 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job modern translations, there is the King James Version, the New King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New International Version, and the New American Standard Version. When we look back further through history, translations which are presumably closer to the original, we find, among others, the Codex Sinaiticus, the Codex Vaticanus and the Old Latin Vulgate. Obviously these are just a scant few of the more well known versions, and there are many, many more. And here’s the point – they all say different things. In most cases, the | Resume differences seem hugely insignificant, but the Template Job more distantly related the versions are, the more differences become apparent. They cannot ALL be correct.

So if you have miraculous insight into which particular version is THE authoratative version of the Bible (since they cannot all be true), then please do enlighten us. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt kill. It is Cane Pages Printable Candy Printable, worth noting here that any system of statements containing a contradiction may be used to prove any conclusion, no matter how absurd. That contradiction, taken from a couple Biblical passages, holes your claim to infallibility below the waterline. So, why should I trade the Bible that is 100% right for genius that is right only 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed, 60% or so? Every time religion has ostracized entire groups of people it has been wrong.

Think of the Reformation, or assigning to Jews the collective guilt of deicide. Your position really boils down to “on account of because.” You sidestep Euthyphros with a transparent dodge, and fail to so much as take on board the theodicy problem. Yet you (and, I presume, all) Evangelicals seek to impose a sectarian beliefs upon a form of secular contract. That is ironic enough. The irony meter goes into the red, though, on Real Market Analysis Request noting that there is no barrier whatsoever to other sects performing sacred marriage upon whomever they choose. So, in the realm where Evangelicals really should have to justify themselves with something more than “on account of because” they don’t. And, in the realm where Biblical inerrancy should make dissension on this matter non existent, it doesn’t. Within ten years, people are going to look back on the passage of Sheet | Resumed Job, Prop 8 with this one question: what the Guide To Betting | Killarney heck were they thinking?

Richie asks what is Sheet Template, “THE authoritative version . . .? Good question! THE answer is the Authorized Version, which is the only version without a copyright. It has been said, you can’t copywrite the Word of Page Printable Cane, God. The two ms. | Resumed! that you mentioned (Sinaticus and Vaticanus), not only disagreed between themselves, but with 95% of the extant Greek ms. in existence. They formed the basis of most of the modern translations. Wedding Template Ideas! (Even the 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job infamous “New World Translation” used the Wescott-Hort Greek). Of these two ms., one was found in | Killarney a trash can and the other in the Vatican Library. Both were of highly questionable value, besides their presumed antiquity.

There is no such thing as a perfect translation, but the Greek ms. upon which the English translation is made is essential to its accuracy. Check out “The Revision Revised” by John Burgon. for an eye opener. Richie asks, what is Sheet Template | Resumed, THE authoritative version . . Request! .?” The answer is THE Authorised Version. Since the Sheet Template | Resumed Job beginning of recorded history there has never been same sex marriage`allowed in any culture, at any time. But according to Skipper, in To Betting | Killarney 10 years time everyone will asking “what the heck were we thinking” in Template | Resumed Job refusing Prop 8? qwertyuio – I have to Estate Analysis Request, say it’s nice to be given a straight answer.

However, things are not really so simple. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed! For example, you cannot simply discount Sinaticus and Vaticanus simply because they disagree with most of the Greek manuscripts. Emergency Plan Mechanical! Imagine for Sheet Template a moment there is a book (Book 1). I make two copies of that book (Books 2 and 3), but in Coordinator Performance Appraisal one copy (Book 3)I accidentally make an error. If the flawed copy is then taken and copied, then the new copy (Book 4) will also contain that flaw. Simply put, if Book 3 is taken and copied hundreds of 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed, times while Books 1 and 2 are not, then those two books will end up disagreeing with the vast majority of texts, but that is obviously not good grounds to dismiss them. When we look at the earliest Greek manuscripts of the Estate Market Colorado Homes New Testament, the first problem is Sheet | Resumed Job, of course, that we do not have the originals for any of the New Testament books. The earliest copiest we have for the books date from Pages Printable between roughly 100 and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, 300 AD, and exist mostly in fragments.

The Codex Vaticanus is the For Resume | Resume Cv Cover earliest of the great parchment manuscripts at 300 AD. Now also consider that in this time there was no printing press, so everything had to be copied by hand in a time and 4+ Raffle, society were very few were literate at all. This explains why the earliest manuscripts vary the most. The Authorized Version was written in the 17th century using existing English translations, but comparing them to It Objective Statement For Resume | Resume Letter, the ancient Greek texts. It is therefore hugely important WHICH Greek texts they used, since they vary so much. How do we know they selected the right ones, if indeed, the Job ‘right ones’ have even survived? But all this history aside, interesting as it is, even the Authorized version contains contradictions.

To pull one at random, how did Judas Iscariot die? According to Emergency Plan – Tp Blog, Matthew 27:3-8, he gave his silver to the priests, who used it to buy the Field of Blood – called so because they buried foreigners there, and 4+ Raffle | Resumed, then hanged himself. According to Emergency Plan Blog, Acts 1:18-19, Judas himself bought the field and ‘fell headlong’ onto it so his guts burst out (nice), and this gave the field its name. How can the 100% accurate word of God contain such a blatant contradiction? Since the beginning of recorded history there has never been same sex marriage`allowed in any culture, at any time.

But according to Sheet Template | Resumed Job, Skipper, in 10 years time everyone will asking “what the heck were we thinking” in refusing Prop 8? Yep. Guide | Killarney! Both demographics and people’s experience point in that direction. Younger people increasingly accept the obvious, that homos-xuality is innate, not chosen. Also, familiarity has failed to 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job, breed contempt. As gays have come out of the Real Request | The Colorado Homes closet, everyone else increasingly sees them as people, rather than contemptible perverts. So, I think it not only inevitable, but sooner rather than later that society will look at Prop 8 as a bloody minded denial of a minority by a majority for whom the cost would have been nil. All based upon 4+ Raffle nothing more than “on account of Because.” What would have been your reaction in 1998 if someone was to insist that in 2008, a black man with the To Betting | Killarney last name Obama would be elected president?

A thread on same sex marriage is 4+ Raffle, not the Page Cane Coloring Pages Printable Candy Printable place to go into Sheet Template | Resumed Job, too much detail on this matter. But I will say this and leave it to rest. Personally, I don’t care whether you believe me or not. If you are sincere in wanting to know more, I suggest that you google Wilber Pickering from the Greek department of Dallas Theological Seminary (Try Pickering + KJV),or (David Fuller + KJV),or John Burgon + KJV). Plan Mechanical Blog! Do some research! The Authorized Version was written using Greek, (NOT English)texts as a base.

It was in agreement with no less than 95% of the Sheet | Resumed 5000 existing Greek ms. These copies and Organizer Ideas, fragments do not vary much and one could reconstruct the 4+ Raffle Job entire NT (except for a few verses) just by personal corresponsense letters of the church fathers. On the other hand the Sinaticus and Vaticanus deviate over 3000 times from the “Majority Text” and Real Estate Colorado, leave out 200 verses found in the Authorized version. They were horrible texts and were not used, or replicated, for the very reason that they were horrible. Concerning the alledged contradiction of 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, Judas’ death as described in the book of Matthew and Acts. It Objective Statement For Resume Letter! Matthew says he hanged himself. Luke says that he fell headlong into a field and his guts burst out. In order for the latter to happen, he must have fallen from a distance, which logically could have occured when he hung himself.

He botched everything else in life, why not his own death? Why “headlong”? No one knows, perhaps he got caught up in the branches of the tree that he hung himself on. I believe the Word of God. When 90% can be proven true, I can accept the other 10% on faith. That is my last word on this subject. Sheet Template | Resumed! . . qwertyu7, you are right that this is a little off-topic, but I had to answer the It Objective For Resume | Resume accusations against me.

I have indeed done some research. My understanding of the English origins of the Auhorized version comes from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02141a.htm. Be that as it may, your understanding of the Biblical scholarship is obviously lacking. Our earliest fragments of the Sheet | Resumed books that make up the Bible differ hugely. Page Candy Cane Coloring Pages Printable! It was only with the invention of the printing press that any book could be reliably reproduced. The Sinaticus and Vaticanus are not freak versions which deviate thousands of times – ALL early Bible manuscripts differ; sometimes significantly, though mostly not. There is no consensus or “majority text”. For a fuller explaination, see Bart Erhman’s Misquoting Jesus, or http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vJluEnIqTVk. Finally, what is the 90% of the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job Bible that can be proven true? None of it can be.

You are taking the Bible ENTIRELY on faith as being even 90% true. For more on the historical inaccuracies in Wedding Planning Template | Wedding the Bible, see http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/otarch.html. I do see we are going off on a tangent though. I just had to speak out at the accusations that I had failed to research these matters, or that the Bible can be proved to be in the slightest bit accurate. 1. No accusations were made against you. 2. You are right The total number of departures of “the Sinaticus and Vaticanus are not freak versions that deviate thousands of times.” To be more precise these versions deviate over 36,000 times from the Majority Text.

3.The majority of the 5000 Greek ms. Template! are in agreement. That is why the Majority Text is also called the “Received Text.” It is essentially what was recieved by the early church fathers. 4.You say that “there is no consensus, or Majority Text.” If you google “Majority Text” you will find 86,000,000 references. 5.You say that “none” of the Bible can be proven true. Planning Organizer Template | Wedding! B.J. Chesterton one of the world’s formost Mideast archeologists said that he has never found one thing in his archeological research that has ever contradicted a New Testiment statement. And he was a Jew! 5. You express doubt that the Bible is the 4+ Raffle | Resumed “slightest bit accurate.” The year is 2008 . . Emergency Blog! . since when? If I do not respond to your reply it is because. I am undergoing a family crisis, and besides, I don’t want to Sheet, hijack this thread. 1. Perhaps I spoke a little strongly there.

I meant no offence. 2, 3 #038; 4. I stand totally corrected. There IS a “majority text”. You learn something new every day. However, according to the first site I visited, ‘The “Majority Text” is Student, a statistical construct that does not correspond exactly to any known manuscript. It is arrived at by comparing all known manuscripts with one another and Template | Resumed, deriving from Guide To Betting | Killarney them the readings that are more numerous than any others.’ In other words, no single manuscript actually fits this ‘majority text’. It has been formed by looking at all the Bibe versions and fragments, (all of which disagree in one place or another) and in each case, favouring the 4+ Raffle most numerous interpretation. However, as I think I demonstrated in Plan Mechanical Blog comment 98, the Sheet | Resumed Job most numerous account is not necessarily the most accurate.

If I make two copies of a book and one copy contains a mistake, but the flawed copy simply goes on Activities Coordinator Performance Appraisal to be copied more times, then this will be the Sheet Job most numerous version, and therefore the one to appear in the Majority Text. Student Activities Coordinator Appraisal! The Majority Text is doubtless an interesting focal point in Biblical scholarship, but there is no reason to Template | Resumed, suppose that this is more reliable or accurate than any other version. 5. ‘Not finding anything to For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter, contradict’ is 4+ Raffle | Resumed, not the same as proving. It’s like asking someone to Wedding Template | Wedding Ideas, prove a negative. 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed! If I said Oliver Twist was true and I could find no evidence in Page Candy Cane Coloring Pages Printable Candy Cane Printable London to contradict this claim, that is a far cry from saying I have proved it to Sheet Template Job, be true. Indeed the most convincing argument against Coloring Pages Printable, the inerrancy of the Bible is the 4+ Raffle Sheet Job lack of evidence that we would expect to find if it was all true. for good examples of this. 6. ‘2008 years since the Activities birth of Jesus’, is the Template answer you are obviously fishing for. However, the BC/AD dating system was not invented until 525 AD, and was only slowly adopted in Guide | Killarney Races the West between the 8th and 14th centuries.

The entire dating system was drawn up by men who were deeply Christian, and 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed, centuries after Jesus supposedly lived. This obviously cannot constitute strong evidence for Jesus’ existence or Biblical accuracy. As a final point, I am sincerely sorry if you are having any personal troubles. I hope it is all sorted out soon. I won’t take it badly at all if you don’t respond. But I’m always happy to Market Request | The Colorado, debate it you do. Actually, a study done a couple of Sheet Template, years ago found that whether or not couples were in a legal commitment was the factor in staying together, rather than sexual orientation. Cane Candy Cane Printable! Unmarried same sex couples did not (if I remember correctly) break up at a greater rate than unmarried heterosexual couples. And frankly, if heterosexual couples don’t need any incentive to stay monogamous without a marriage, well, why do they bother marrying?

It sounds to me as if you’ve just argued that people can be just as committed living together as they are married. I only agree with like 2-things in here…But seriously, why take away a persons civil rights? That’s just so wrong! I mean really when all these church people and white trash gay bashers move in and try to take away their rights, it doesn’t make you look like you’re “proteacting” or “saving” marriage, it just looks like you’re being a whiney little bitch about it… I only | Resumed Job, agree with like 2-things in here…But seriously, why take away a persons civil rights? That’s just so wrong! I mean really when all these church people and white trash gay bashers move in Student Performance and try to take away their rights, it doesn’t make you look like you’re “proteacting” or “saving” marriage, it just looks like you’re being a whiney little bitch about it… I agree with you that there are other considerations about Template Job this issue than biblical ones. You mentioned some cultural ones, there are judicial /legal ones as well. Wedding | Wedding! (Is this right actually in the Calif constitution, despite what the Supreme Court says?) This is Job, not a Christian issue.

It’s about democratic majority rule, what rights are given to the minority and how to properly protect those rights. See my blog, “Life in the Big Democracy” at Student Coordinator http://www.sophiesladder.com. P.S. Sheet Job! I found this blog from a link on “Blue Christian”. rbmhw sawicuv pmcthf rynhet gnljb bahez gfnjmtcy. rbmhw sawicuv pmcthf rynhet gnljb bahez gfnjmtcy. rbmhw sawicuv pmcthf rynhet gnljb bahez gfnjmtcy. i personall do not support gay marrige….here are a few reasons why.

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7.gay parents will raise their children to Wedding Template | Wedding Ideas, be a gay…influation… 8. gay marriage is not supported by religion. 9.children would not succeed if they do not have a male parent and a female parent. 10.this will change the foundation of society…i mean this is not what humans are…. now i am in 4+ Raffle Sheet Template a huge mess, personally this is what i think of gay marriage, and now i have been given my debate topic to Emergency – Tp, be for gay marraige and i don’t even agree to one of the advantages of 4+ Raffle Job, gay marriage…i have not even lost one debate in my life….all i can do is more research, if any one you have a strong point for Page Candy Cane Printable Printable gay marriage pls do tell me… i personall do not support gay marrige….here are a few reasons why. 2.how will this going to benefit the society….instead this will ruin the society. 3.legalizing gay marriage would open the doors to any body getting married, for example would you want your dog to get married to another dog of the same sex…..how is the dog going to be benefited?? 4.why is there this change. …its not like divorce is 4+ Raffle, not legal…i mean two people of the same sex can be good friends….how are they going to benefit the Guide To Betting | Killarney world….they can go out and watch movies or hand out together… 5.this is less meaningful to the society. 6.there is a need of a family…you cant just adopt children from the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed orphanage…..one day the orphanage will run out of babies, then who will produces more babies or the orphanage would not want to give the baby to a gay couple…will they?? 7.gay parents will raise their children to be a gay…influation…

8. gay marriage is not supported by religion. 9.children would not succeed if they do not have a male parent and a female parent. 10.this will change the foundation of Planning Template Ideas, society…i mean this is not what humans are…. now i am in a huge mess, personally this is what i think of gay marriage, and Sheet | Resumed, now i have been given my debate topic to Wedding Planning Template | Wedding, be FOR gay marraige and i don’t even agree to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job, one of the advantages of For Resume Letter, gay marriage…i have not even lost one debate in my life….all i can do is more research, if any one you have a strong point for gay marriage pls do tell me… Don’t let this important debate die. 4+ Raffle Template Job! Everyone who’s posted here has raised some very good points, and they should be preserved for anyone in the future who needs to learn the arguments on both sides. The best place to do that is at http://www.livingvote.org/. ‘Christians’ appear graceless, judgmental and controlling when they vote to ‘defend marriage’.

The statistics offered by Steeve were an utter joke. Mr Hollis’ rebuttal was very impressive.

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Shudder. Frankie Thomas , is a junior majoring in cinema-television critical studies, with a minor in 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed gender studies. Her immediate plans include dropping out at the end of the year to write and/or travel. She is a film maker and Real Estate Market Request Homes, a blogger, with interests ranging from the social history of the Victorian era to birdwatching to the novels of Dawn Powell. I had the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job kind of college experience most people only dream about. Charged by the atmosphere of intellectual exploration, inspired by professors who pushed me farther than I’d ever imagined I could go, I made fascinating new friends at Activities Coordinator Performance Skidmore; together we discovered Nabokov and Kafka, Citizen Kane and Dr. Strangelove, and 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed Job, our own literary voices.

It was a three-week summer program. I was fifteen. Now I’m twenty, halfway toward graduating from University of | Resume Letter, Southern California, and if I had a thousand dollars for every college student I know who Struggles With Depression…well, I still wouldn’t have enough money to pay my full tuition. But it would keep me going for a semester or two, assuming I didn’t lose my own struggle and 4+ Raffle, drop listlessly out. As our SATs would have put it, “depression” is to “college campus” as “consumption” is to “Victorian orphanage,” and ours is a generation of wheezing waifs. Max Lance , 23, is a freshman at USC’s School of Cinematic Arts, majoring in writing for film and television.

He hopes to make his mark either with a “life-changing TV show” or by “marrying someone rich.” When I dropped out of college three years ago I would have completely agreed that college isn’t the cultural experience that it was hyped up to be. As I return this September, I’ve realized that it’s a good thing it isn’t. I completely agree that college as America used to know it has come to an end, but I believe that schools have changed for the better. The problem I had when I quit school the first time around was that I never adjusted to how schools have changed. I dropped out Planning Template Ideas, because of my mislaid expectations; the same ones that Rick Perlstein is nostalgic for. I’m going back to school because I’ve realized what the college experience is like today and I’m now more than prepared to 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job abuse it. Like nearly everyone in my graduating class, I attended higher education because that’s what we did next. College seemed more like 13th grade rather than a place where I would be opened up to radical people and It Objective Statement For Resume, ways of thinking. I spent my freshman and sophomore years doing what I needed to do to get good grades because that’s all I had done since kindergarten. And even though I worked hard to earn a 3.7 GPA, I dropped out of New York University because of a complete lack of passion for what I was studying (journalism, via process of elimination).

Travis Weinger , 21, is Sheet, a senior majoring in Real Market Request | The history, with a concentration in war, revolution and social change. His minor is Job, political science. He is a founder of the Triton, a newspaper at UCSD, and of the Symposium, an on-campus discussion group. Rick Perlstein’s article, boiled down, is simply an Page Cane Pages Printable Cane extended version of the bitching that every generation hears from the one that preceded it: “Back when I went to school, we walked uphill in the snow both ways…” In sum, college mattered back when Mr. Perlstein went to Template it because that was when he went to it. Since college has changed from when he remembered it, he wants us to believe that it has somehow degenerated into irrelevance. The vast majority of Perlstein’s complaints fit under the above rubric. Our college experience is not as liberating as his was (no longer can we simply phone public intellectuals and bully them into Page Cane Coloring Pages Cane Printable visiting our dorms). Our activists are not as radical as his were (we don’t take over enough buildings). Our connection to the Sixties isn’t as strong as his was (our band members aren’t former revolutionaries). We are not as alienated from 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, society as he was (we engage our world, not whine about it).

Perlstein’s claim that his experience was in some way both richer and harder than the next generation’s is an old one, and is continuously echoed by every generation. Market Analysis | The? Like most complaints of this type, it is largely groundless and mildly insulting. Sheet | Resumed Job? To respond to it bit by bit would validate his nostalgic whining to a degree it does not deserve. The Cultural Contradictions of American Universities. For the past twenty to thirty years, we have seen the Organizer | Wedding Ideas great degradation of post-secondary education.

Conventional wisdom suggests that the problem lies simultaneously within the hands of the politicians and the students. This narrative does not account for the history of college. Throughout the Sheet Template Job modern age, the role college played in the national debate was minimal. To this date, there has only been one president with a Ph.D., and – Tp Mechanical Blog, both The New Deal and Truman’s Fair Deal did relatively little for college and education in general (with the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job exception of the G.I. Bill). And even today, most candidates on both sides of the isle have the same prescription for college: the problem is lack of funding, therefore, the solution is to increase funding. It usually ends at that. In order to find the true crisis of Statement For Resume Cv Cover Letter, college, we must first look at its true purpose. A few months ago, Charles Murray wrote a controversial series of columns in the Wall Street Journal arguing, not that college had been written out of the national debate, but that its role is too great.

Essentially, too many people are going to college who did not need college, but instead needed vocational training. There are serious problems with his logic to 4+ Raffle Sheet Template be sure, not the least of which is his obvious IQ-ism. While it is true that college is in need of some serious reforming, focusing solely on IQ will not solve them, for IQ is not the only purpose of Page Coloring, college. For example, there are, what a professor of mine called, “latent overtones.” That is, those unexpected, and unintended consequences of college learning. For example, one might discover a great philosopher that he’s never heard of, or another collegiate finds that they enjoy a field of Job, study which they did not expect. But this is, of course, part of the intellectual journey of students. Guide To Betting | Killarney? College exists not, as conventional wisdom suggests, to 4+ Raffle change the culture. It exists to create a new breed of Planning Organizer, intellectuals.

All politics aside, students should exit college not knowing simply what to think, but how to think. This is where Mr. Murray and I agree. He hits the nail on the head when he describes the purpose of Sheet Template, college, that college is created to train the elites to do their jobs. However, this purpose has been lost in a quagmire of watered-down curricula and Page Cane Pages Printable Candy Cane, fluff courses. And this brings us to the real problem of college: the searing anti-intellectualism of the youth. Education is the single most important factor in the growth of 4+ Raffle Job, our country. Specifically, higher education paves a future and provides opportunity for students that attend college and gives them a shot at Coordinator Appraisal a career. 50 years ago, college was strictly for the elite, high class Americans. Now, it seems that every common household has at least one family member attend college.

But with the increasing drop out rate today, students seem less interested in learning at college and Sheet Template Job, their priorities change from | Killarney, their original goal of graduating. The importance of education today is a growing factor because the future of this country depends on Sheet Job the students in Organizer Ideas college today. College is misunderstood by many incoming freshman. All of the Sheet Template | Resumed television advertisements and billboards encouraging students to attend college are used as bait to Candy Cane Pages Printable Candy Printable reel in student’s tuition. Parents encourage their kids to 4+ Raffle Template attend college after graduating high school because they want to see their kids have a shot at Cv Cover success. However, college is not cut out for everyone. More freshman than ever are dropping out after their first year because college can be overwhelming through everything that takes place within campus boundaries. The pressures of college whether it’s to 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed impress parents or maintain a high GPA grasps hold of many students while they are in Coordinator Appraisal college, freezing them from work and attending class regularly. Back in Sheet Template | Resumed the 50’s and 60’s when college was becoming so popular, people attended college solely to improve their education and learn through the college experience, in hopes of Real Estate Market Analysis Request Colorado Homes, obtaining a career after graduation.

Now, people attend college because their friends or girlfriend go there. Many people attend college just to Sheet | Resumed Job party as much as possible. College can be misleading for teenagers fresh out of high school, and For Resume | Resume Cv Cover Letter, people who feel that continuing their education isn’t the most important factor in attending college should not apply. College matters because without a thoroughly educated society, America would fall to its knees and regress into deep depression. Jobs would flounder because the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job people applying for them wouldn’t get accepted without college degrees. Pat Brown expanded university development in California in 1966 to encourage people of every social class to attend college and gain a higher education. The reason for his rapid expansion was because the number of college students doubled from 1957 to Estate | The Colorado Homes 1967, and Brown decided in order to improve society and keep America running, more universities should be built to attract new students.

However, in Sheet Template | Resumed 1997, only 54 percent of Emergency – Tp Mechanical, students that attended college as freshmen graduated with a degree six years later, 30 percent not even finishing their freshman year. Sheet Template | Resumed? Once students enroll in college, dropping out is the worst decision they can make. The opportunity cost of dropping can be detrimental to Page Candy Coloring Pages Printable Cane a student’s financial standing. Dropping out also means dropping tuition, and 4+ Raffle Job, students are often left with debt to pay off depending on which year they dropped out. Entering in a low paying job, drop outs must slowly pay back student loans, which is why college is so important to – Tp Mechanical Blog stick to and graduate once enrolled.

The likelihood of students being able to pay off student loans quickly after graduating is Job, much greater than the likelihood of a drop out paying off loans. Drop outs sometimes will only Wedding Organizer Ideas make enough money per paycheck to pay off previous college debts, not leaving any left over cash for Sheet Template | Resumed leisure activities. Once choosing the decision to Coordinator attend college, remaining in 4+ Raffle Sheet college is the most important decision a student can make, in order to avoid living a below average lifestyle. Young adults are fed by change. No matter how resistant or welcoming I am to change, when all is said and done change sustains me. Two years as an undergraduate student at Fordham University have been made slightly easier by knowing this about Planning Template | Wedding Ideas, myself, because college means change. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed? Even with the still shrinking cyber community and the ‘real world’ opportunities offered to many young people today, nothing can replace the rush of Student Activities Appraisal, change attached to the college experience. College students are encouraged to make noise. When interviewed by Rick Perlstein for an article entitled ‘What’s the Matter With College” students were very vocal. Hamilton Morris, a New York bred college student, described a college experience where many students hate school “with a passion” and “don’t leave”. Perlstein writes that Morris’s feelings are proof of a “culture of enervation” which overwhelms many campuses today.

Instead of seeing what Perlstein describes, students without hope or the will to 4+ Raffle Template Job pursue their studies, I see Morris as describing a culture of restlessness. Students who claim to hate college but still do not leave are experiencing a kind of Page Coloring Pages Candy Printable, restlessness which comes with the package. Students experience change so quickly–changes of passions, opinions and interests. Template Job? They are bound to become restless, especially when the off-campus world is within arm’s length. I often smile to think the world is at my fingertips when I am surfing the internet, but the truth is my fingers are touching my keyboard, and I am planted in my kitchen chair drinking Diet Coke. College offers me the opportunity to shake hands with the leaders of business, art, science and medicine–something the internet can not give me. College professors do not want students to be excited about school and theory alone–they want them to take their passion into the world beyond the campus. Coordinator Appraisal? I am not writing this commentary for 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job my school newspaper. I am writing it for New York Times Magazine, a publication Journalism majors like me aspire to work for. College urges me to aspire, to voice my opinions, and yes, to change. The problem with colleges in the 21st century is convoluted with many deciding factors, resulting in a more complex position for current college students to experience, unlike any previous generation of Organizer Ideas, college students.

In my opinion, being a college graduate student and Template | Resumed, one who has been involved in my school, I can honestly say that the biggest problem with our generation is the sense of nihilism, which is Candy Cane Coloring Cane, plaguing the our very core of our being. It is Sheet | Resumed Job, important to realize that this comes not only from Wedding Planning Organizer Template, college campuses, but the society in general; people just don’t care. If they do care and want to be involved, societal pressures, mostly economic, is what keeps them from being invoked with the spirit of the previous generations. There seems to be no sense of urgency when it comes to our generation. Nihilism will do that to everyone. I also find it interesting that the people who do want to be involved do not necessarily know what to get involved with. In the 60s, it seemed to be clear cut what the problem was; racism, sexism, or the 4+ Raffle Template war in Vietnam. A contrast between the 60s generation and us now is that people do not what the problems really are. The mentality when speaking to college students; they seem to focus more on trying to get that 80K a year job then the socio-political issues affecting us. It is evident that we value the Printable Candy Cane dollar more so than we value the human struggle.

So apathy also plays a role. It is important to realize that we must do something, otherwise everyone suffers. Sending your child to college is 4+ Raffle, not an option in American society, and it’s hardly a privilege at Emergency Plan – Tp that. 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed? In today’s fierce and fast paced world it is a necessity For most parents, thought goes into Guide To Betting how they will even fund such a venture within the first few months of the child’s conception. College funds and Sheet Job, savings bonds, money from relatives and graduation parties, this all gets stored until an entire portion of that funding goes towards expensive college visits. Not only does the child want to go to college, that child has picked out 10 in which there is an orientation at each for prospective parents. They want to see where their money is going, as well as where their child will sleep, learn, and Page Candy Cane Printable, become the 4+ Raffle Template Job successful adult they were meant to be. What is wrong with college? As a successful student at a prominent Chicago school, I, for Emergency Plan Blog one, have plenty of opinions on 4+ Raffle | Resumed the matter. Wedding Organizer Template | Wedding? Let’s look at “our war” by first taking a retrospective glance at 4+ Raffle Sheet Job Vietnam.

My father, a student at the time of Vietnam, was a conservative at a very conservative Indiana school. He still wore his GDI shirt most days of the week and talked highly of the camaraderie between fellow students. There were protests that were actually allowed on his campus. When the students died in Real Market | The Colorado Homes the Kent incident he remembers rallies against the war in their honor. He also remembers reading the Sheet Template | Resumed Job names of the dead soldiers with the rest of Candy Cane Pages Printable Cane, his class, keeping in somber memory the fight his country was in. Sheet | Resumed Job? Bands of Emergency Plan Mechanical, students were scared, there was a draft in effect. Everyone had war on the mind and as those 18 year olds took on 4+ Raffle their first years of college, they had a lot more to worry about than where the weekend’s keg party was taking place. Activities Appraisal? They were learning, growing, and forming opinions on the world they were entering by knowing their current events and being passionate about them.

Of course, without the 4+ Raffle Sheet Job internet, their local papers brought them more world events and Estate | The, less Lindsay Lohan. Being passionate about the world takes a certain naivety that forms when someone does not already have the opinions of others so easily accessible. The internet has taken so much of 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed Job, this away from current students. In my experience, you only have to make a choice on which websites to read. Real Analysis Homes? Looking at our war today, many students walk away from Sheet | Resumed, it, choosing not even to recognize that it affects their daily world. There are many more cliques, many more places to falter, and many more reasons not to care. Hold a pen in front of you and Estate Market Analysis Homes, look at it; notice its size and | Resumed, color in particular. Now, slowly move it away until you have your arm fully extended. Notice anything different? Probably not, and Emergency – Tp Mechanical, that is how it should be.

If we remember back to middle school science class, color is partially dependent upon | Resumed the angle that light hits an object. But we just moved an object, causing the angle to change from our perspective, and did not notice any change in color. The pen also moved further away without any apparent change in size. To Betting? I forgot the intricate details that explain why this happens, something to do with a portion of the brain that keeps our perceptions fluid . What I do remember, and will never forget, is how cool this all seemed and how much more there is to the world when you get past the surface. College is a pretty different place today than it was for my parents thirty years ago. Then again, so were the two worlds in which we were raised. Most kids in my generation were not raised in the Sandlot. We did not hang out at Sheet | Resumed Job the malt shop after school.

And we definitely did not attend any sock hops (or if we did, best believe we did not call them that). Instead, we started out playing on jungle gyms with woodchips and protective rubber flooring underneath. Eventually, we found ourselves being chauffeured to organized baseball practice, in a minivan. By high school, the importance of Guide To Betting Races, getting into a good college had been seared into us and 4+ Raffle Sheet Job, serious attention had to be allocated toward after-school activities and other kinds of enriching events to make sure that we were “well- rounded”. Here’s a fun game that anyone my age can play: ask your parents what they got on their SATs.

If they can, you win! Basically, it is like hitting the lottery, since your parents have to be like one out of a million. High school students in the 60’s did not pay $1,000 for an SAT class and definitely did not go to – Tp any Independent College Consultants. As Mr. Perlstein stated, college was seen as a place sort of apart from the rest of the world. Kids went there and were met with new people, ideas, and Template | Resumed Job, situations. Page Candy Coloring Pages Printable Candy Cane? Back then, as I understand it, college was not seen as a stepping stone or a rung on the ladder. You did not go with the mindset that it was simply a means to 4+ Raffle Sheet end, a place to simply collect good grades and then experience the Analysis Request | The ‘director’s cut redux edition’ of college admissions in the form of graduate school, an internship or a job.

Why College Matters: A Response to “What’s the Matter With College” I suppose I should begin by saying that I don’t go to a real college. I mean, I don’t feel like I go to 4+ Raffle | Resumed a real college. I don’t take real classes. I don’t live on a real campus. I’m a music major and Student Appraisal, attend the 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job Peabody Institute in Wedding Baltimore, Maryland. Peabody is an established music conservatory, one of the schools of Johns Hopkins University (despite what I say about it not being a “real” school). In his essay, Perlstein is making it seem that today’s college undergraduates and the ideals we pursue are somehow deficient.

That we’re missing out. He’s especially concerned that we’re nothing like the students of the 60s and 70s. He’s right about that, but that is nothing to be ashamed of. We’re students who want (or carry) the iPhone. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template Job? We are environmental activists. We’re more technologically savvy than Perlstein’s generation.

We get our information and communicate in a totally different way. We’re amazing jugglers. For Resume | Resume Letter? We’re a new breed. It is interesting to 4+ Raffle Sheet Job read that the defining issue for the 1966 California gubernatorial race was college. For my sake, and I’m sure for the sake of a lot of my peers, I wish it were still that way. Emergency – Tp Blog? College sounded romantic and Template | Resumed, fun. My friends argue that things have changed in the past 40 years, and that there are bigger fish to fry. The war, for example.

Making a living once college ends. Coordinator Performance Appraisal? When they start complaining, however, about 4+ Raffle Job, classes and Races, stress, I ask them, “aren’t there bigger fish to fry?” at which they sigh outwardly, roll their eyes, and throw their hands up in the air. I understand where their frustration lies. We still feel young in the scheme of things, and not ready to plan out 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job, our lives after college. It feels like we’ve been doing nothing but planning since freshman year of Ideas, high school.

Who has time to Sheet worry anyway? Right now, I am worrying if I have enough money to pay the rent this month. Many of my classmates worry how to – Tp Mechanical Blog pay for 4+ Raffle | Resumed Job the next semester. To be honest, when it came to college, most of us never really had a choice. Where I grew up, in Greenwich, Connecticut, there was never the option of “college vs. no college.” The choice was “Ivy League vs. state school,” or something along those lines. The whole getting-ready-for-college experience was important.

As you thumb these pages, reader, loyal subscriber, conscious citizen with an appetite for inquiry and thoughtfulness, or may I say fellow American, you tell yourself that you want to sample a young student’s intellect. Certainly I do believe that my own college experience has been important, even critical, to my life and to my thoughts here and now, but young and impressionable does not necessarily partner with a tame, meaningful sense of hindsight… My college experience has fostered some growth. But for the nation? Lend me some relevance. Am I to accurately describe my confusion with you over coffee to tell you how this all breaks down–I fit in the puzzle and I’m one of the corners, right? Politics. – Tp Mechanical? We don’t have movements, and we don’t have causes. A choice between higher education and higher purpose has been made; show me one text message, fellow student, that you have wanted the whole country to read. Children live at Sheet | Resumed Job school. Especially if they don’t have much of a home life to live in the afternoon or evening, kids live and learn at school. College isn’t so different, only first graders aren’t expected to shape up all by themselves when they appear to be wasting time.

Oh, college students aren’t either? Pity. Guide Races? I guess higher education isn’t all that important. Maybe the problems of higher education are just fronds atop a mirage of public schooling. Template | Resumed? Talk to Herbert Kohl, Jonathan Kozol, John Taylor Gatto, men who are trying to Candy Pages Candy Cane wake this country up, and Sheet Template | Resumed, they’ll show you what’s happening to my younger brothers and sisters. Content in the shade, college students loaf, while in more dangerous environs, under the pretext that they are to learn, children sit down in their desks each morning in the arms of a crumbling system. In college, we choose to sleep in, not to participate, excel, regress, etc. If higher education is important to the nation, why don’t more people act like it? Better yet, if education is so important to the nation’s future, why is it neglected? Important as it is, I feel proud to remember the words of Thomas Jefferson, who often can remind us of politicians’ and citizens’ true responsibilities: “It is highly interesting to our country, and Real Market Analysis Request Homes, it is the duty of its functionaries, to provide that every citizen in it should receive an education proportioned to the condition and pursuits of his life.” He speaks to the politician, tells him to take a good look at his fellow Americans. What sort of education will he provide to match the condition, the quality of Template, life?

If the quality be poor, will he stick to poor schooling until lifestyles rise to the occasion? Try downtown Anywhere, where elementary schools have been forced to remove social studies and arts in favor of apparently year-round test preparation, for standards in English and mathematics. Wedding Planning Organizer Template | Wedding Ideas? The “need to know” world and the world of standardization are one in the same, and columns of darkened bubbles are in no short supply, though there’s still a need to live. The Problem with College: Why We No Longer See Ourselves As “Part of” a Community. One anomaly of American society is that our universities play only a marginal role in 4+ Raffle Sheet Job our culture. In other nations, like France where intellectual life is not centered on Statement | Resume Cv Cover their institutions of 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job, education, this may come as no surprise, but the virtues of Performance, American universities are indisputable. Academics wonder why they are allowed to be the nation’s intellectual leaders, but not its leaders, or even advisors, in Sheet Job the political or ethical arenas.

Some are resentful of the mainstream society, thinking it apostate, as though they were priests of Real | The Homes, some outworn creed, but this alienation, which has developed in tandem with the evolution of academia, did not come because the 4+ Raffle Job society rejected the university as a social or moral authority, but rather because the university ran out of the energy it took to function in this role. To Betting | Killarney? This occurred, at least partially, because those of 4+ Raffle Sheet Template, us in college found that the values we shared were not strong enough to unite us. From the time of Plato, the Student Activities Appraisal purpose of the university has not been to represent the society or culture in which it exists but to pursue truth. 4+ Raffle Sheet? Most academics, who may disagree on what truth is in essence, would agree that it is a noble and worthy objective. And, since truth is their goal, many of them think themselves justified in Emergency Plan – Tp Blog being alienated from mainstream society. This does not mean their views are homogenous; I can testify that, at the University of Idaho (to name one example), the 4+ Raffle Sheet Template | Resumed politics of professors in the College of Business are not shared by Cane Pages Printable Cane the English instructors; but what the two departments have in common is their distance from America’s political center.

This is largely because specialists in any field, whether that field is 4+ Raffle Template Job, philosophy or political science, tend to Coordinator Performance Appraisal feel invalidated if anyone could reach the same conclusions that they do. Template | Resumed Job? It is a telling fact that, at least until recent years, there was a higher percentage of Coloring Pages Candy Printable, self-described Marxist literary critics than blue-color workers. Nonetheless, this desire for Sheet academic innovation benefits the university in that it makes professors’ research original; it is for this reason that, whenever universities are rated according to prestige, the United States constantly is For Resume | Resume Cv Cover, found to have the greatest number of prestigious institutions. Even so, there is another facet to Sheet Job a professor’s job, teaching. This requirement creates a dilemma for many professors: their strenuous educations and meticulous research has caused many of Request | The Homes, them to become opinionated, but, at the same time, they need to Sheet Template Job keep their students pacified while educating them in accordance with principles which the students may not share. Thus, they (and the students) learn that it is To Betting | Killarney Races, easier to ignore worldview-related issues. In searching for the least common ethical denominator among the group, the instructors and the instructed clandestinely agree that the values which they hold as specific to their Weltanschauungs do not apply to Sheet everyone, and, if they do, the value of placidity applies even more.

As Allan Bloom wrote in 1987, “[A]lmost every student entering the university . Wedding Planning Organizer Template Ideas? . Sheet? . says he believes . . Analysis Request? . that truth is relative” (1). While this outlook may work in Template as far as it prevents conflicts, it is an Plan Mechanical ineffective communal bond. This is because the values of the classroom are provisional and–most students cannot help but feel–artificial. 4+ Raffle Sheet Template? They haven’t the power to It Objective Statement For Resume Cv Cover unite the 4+ Raffle Sheet | Resumed Job students and faculty in Wedding Planning Organizer Template | Wedding Ideas a community, which requires common interests and 4+ Raffle Template | Resumed, mores. In July, The Magazine published What's the Matter With College, an essay by the historian Rick Perlstein, online and Plan Blog, invited college students across the United States to respond.

Some 600 undergraduates did -- many agreeing with Perlstein's assertion that college as America used to understand it is coming to an end, many dismissing his argument as so much nostalgic pap, still others taking the occasion to critique higher education from an insider's perch. To continue the conversation, we're featuring the winning student essay and four runners-up, and posting another 450 of the Template entries in a searchable format. (The other entries were withdrawn by their authors or did not follow the contest's rules.)